Hector Tobar, Los Angeles Times, January 27, 2009
A wise American once wrote, “You can’t go home again.”
If you’re from Los Angeles, you know that truer words were never spoken.
Call this city home, and eventually L.A. will repay your devotion with a swift kick, a cold slap, and a mocking wave goodbye.
I learned this lesson the hard way after many years away. I decided to revisit the corner of L.A. where I was born and raised.
When I was a kid, I called this place Hollywood. The glitzier meanings of the name barely registered in my young brain. The Hollywood I knew was a sooty playground of concrete and asphalt where all my friends lived.
Then I got older, and moved to Montebello and many other places in California and beyond. I started telling people I was born in East Hollywood. I liked the gritty feel “East” added to its name.
But on my recent return, I found my old homeplace had a new name.
“Little Armenia” read the bold white letters on blue rectangular signs, installed by city workers on Hollywood Boulevard. Unfortunately, I am not Armenian.
Returning to your childhood home and finding it officially named for another ethnic group is sort of like going to your birthday party and finding someone else’s name on the cake.
If the sign had read “Little Guatemala,” I’m sure I would have felt a burst of pride: I might have called my immigrant mother to say, “There’s a little part of L.A. named after us!”
{snip}
My parents came here from Guatemala to reinvent themselves. Tens of thousands of Guatemalans followed after them, changing the L.A. neighborhoods they lived in.
{snip}
Little Tokyo, we read in this paper Saturday, is filling with Koreans. There’s been a big Vietnamese and Cambodian presence in Chinatown for decades now. And my part of East Hollywood probably could just as easily be called Little Manila or Little San Salvador.
There’s no denying the Armenian imprint on my old stomping grounds.
Armenian business owners have populated the neighborhood with signs written in the loops and arcs of their alphabet. My inability to speak Armenian led to a short conversation with a local merchant that ended with him apologizing for his poor English.
{snip} A lot of Guatemalans still live there. And another corner of our old stomping grounds has another official city of Los Angeles neighborhood designation: Thai Town.
It was the Thais who beat us all to the punch, back in 1999.
The Thais even got Caltrans to put “Thai Town” signs on the Hollywood Freeway.
It goes without saying that the official designation of Thai Town irked an Armenian sensibility or two. So in 2000, the City Council renamed part of East Hollywood to honor “the traditional birthplace of the Armenian community of Los Angeles.”
The official boundaries of Thai Town and Little Armenia overlap, which is odd—but also entirely appropriate, given the patchwork of ethnicities that call the place home.
{snip}
Original article
Email
Hector Tobar
at hector.tobar@latimes.com .
(Posted on January 27, 2009)
Comments
“But on my recent return, I found my old homeplace had a new name.
“Little Armenia” read the bold white letters on blue rectangular signs, installed by city workers on Hollywood Boulevard. Unfortunately, I am not Armenian.
Returning to your childhood home and finding it officially named for another ethnic group is sort of like going to your birthday party and finding someone else’s name on the cake.”
So how’s feel to finally be White, pal?
Armenians are the most ethno-centric folks I have ever met
A multicultural country isn’t a country at all. It’s no more than a staging area for economic refugees whose true allegiances are with the failed state they fled from, because they couldn’t make a living there. Most of them also are rife with corruption and amount to no more than open sewers, yet that doesn’t seem to deter the relocated rabble from flying their rags anywhere they can to show their loyalty, making it more than obvious where their hearts really lie.
The multicults idea of a rainbow utopia, expecting everybody to get along would be a laughing matter if it wasn’t going to result in internecine warfare. And make no mistake about it, that’s exactly where it’s headed.
In a departure from the past, special interest groups now plant their flags on their urban claims, which lends permanency to their land-grab.
Once you put up permanent markers, you have something to rally around and defend as a primal instinct. Call it the unwelcome mat for outsiders.
It is ultimately about politics. The community which is bonded together around a neighborhood can demand concessions from elected representatives, who must court them at election time.
It also facilitates criminals, who can operate in a closed environment, behind a language and cultural barrier, often hostile to police forces.
Wow - a white immigrant group pushing out non-whites. Who knew they still let white immigrants into the U.S.? Irish, Russians and Armenians seem to be the only white immigrants allowed in any big numbers.
Armenians, like all peoples from the Middle East, practice in-group morality. That is, they will lie to you and cheat you. But they are very conscious of being White, and will call their businesses Euro this or Euro that.
Armenian communities have been around California for over a hundred years, long before the Guatemalans ever started showing up. And the fact that they’ve displaced Guatemalans in this L.A. neighborhood should only be seen as a positive step forward.
Armenians are by and large, Christian, originally Caucasian, hardworking, intelligent people, and they will assimilate a lot faster than the Guatemalans ever did. In another generation, you will see most of those Armenian signs disappear, the neighborhood will prosper, and you will barely know that it was ever an ‘ethnic’ neighborhood back at the turn of the 21st century.
I grew up and went to school with Armenian guys and girls at a time when they were just Americans to me and my friends. We went to the beach, we played baseball, the Armenian girls hung out with other girls and there were no “little Armenias” that I knew of. Yes, liberal/progressives, it’s true and was always true, before you started your programs to divide and balkanize people and allow millions of unassimiliated people into the U.S., you troublers of America.
The “immigrant” who wrote this piece must not be very old. That neighborhood was 100% white through 1971 or so. Then Immigration Act of 1965 really took hold. While there are a lot of Armenians in the neighborhood, they were able to have the area named “Little Armenia” through organization, political clout. Their population in the area is dwarfed, surrounded, by third world illegals from Mexico, Guatemala and El Salvador. I know all this because I grew up in the same neighborhood. There was a small black neighborhood just East of this area and it has disappeared completely. But crime is higher than ever. The true “Little Armenia” is Glendale, a few miles Northeast. Their favored immigration status coupled with daisy-chain immigration via the Act of ‘65 has seen them take over that city top to bottom. All thanks to Emanuel Celler, Jacob Javitz and the sponsorship of Ted Kennedy. As to this Guatemalan who penned this article, you can bet that his parents are most likely illegals. His current home city of Montebello has been destroyed by the latino invasion.
Armenians are by and large, Christian, originally Caucasian, hardworking, intelligent people, and they will assimilate a lot faster than the Guatemalans ever did
These Armenians are also the most organized and ruthless criminals in the U.S. They don’t do the blatant, obvious crimes the stupid Guatamalans do, they are much more covert.
The Armenian ‘capital’ in the US used to be Fresno, California. But that was back around 1948.
And as a different poster said, Armenians are white, Christian, and they assimilate. The mestizos like the author of this article are not white, their Christianity retains pre-columbian remnants, and the only assimilation they have in mind is making us anglos assimilate to them (Reconquista, Aztlan, etc).
The other concentration of Armenians in LA, as has also been pointed out, is in the suburb of Glendale. Unlike the sprawling swaths of dirty, depressing, dangerous hispanic neighborhoods — which now that latinos are >50% of the LA population constitute fully HALF of the neighborhoods in America’s second-largest city — Armenian-heavy Glendale is a clean, orderly, SAFE place where anybody who reads this site would feel comfortable.
Although I have to say that I don’t agree with this whole business of getting City Hall to officially name areas after ANY ethnic group. Putting up signs promoting a certain ethnic neighborhood adds the imprimatur of legitimacy to ethnic identity politics. It merely encourages competing ethnic agendas — and leads to annoying articles written by disgruntled meso-americanos in the LA Times. If it were up to me, no American city would spend even one taxpayer dime even for a “Chinatown” sign, let alone ones for “Little Tokyo,” “Little Armenia,” “Thai Town,” and all the rest. Such signs are an obvious disincentive to social cohesion, to assimilation, to AMERICANIZATION.
“Americanization.” Now THERE’S a word you don’t hear much anymore…
Armenians are Middle Eastern, not European…and certainly nothing at all like Protestant Englishmen. The United States is Protestant English to the core. When that core is gone, the United States is gone.
The Armenians of Bobby’s youth and mine were the grandchildren of immigrants, they didn’t even care about hating the Turks. Those who have flooded Glendale are post Soviet, they grew up under communism and are very different from my school friends. They don’t like Mexicans but they act like them.
Ah, sweet schadenfreude. The Germans have a word for everything, don’t they?
AR readers, I am actually laughing at this article. See immigration only becomes a problem for the left only when the immigration is coming in from Europe or from white like countries..
“Returning to your childhood home and finding it officially named for another ethnic group is sort of like going to your birthday party and finding someone else’s name on the cake.”
Ha! Well put! This is what is going on all over America, on a NATIONAL scale, not only LA.
“The multicult’s idea of a rainbow utopia, expecting everybody to get along would be a laughing matter if it wasn’t going to result in internecine warfare.
Ranger is right. So long as the trough is full, and every animal is getting its belly filled, things can remain (at least fairly) peaceful. But when the hard times come and the goodies dry up, that’s when things will get nasty. Really nasty.
The “immigrant” who wrote this piece must not be very old. That neighborhood was 100% white through 1971 or so. Then Immigration Act of 1965 really took hold.
All thanks to Emanuel Celler, Jacob Javitz and the sponsorship of Ted Kennedy.
As to this Guatemalan who penned this article, you can bet that his parents are most likely illegals.
I remember E. Hollywood from the 1950’s. I didn’t live there but I had a friend who did and I often visited. (I don’t remember it as the sooty, ugly place that he describes. Perhaps it became that way after his people moved in?) In fact, I think that area had once been quite elegant - earlier in the century and during Hollywood’s pre-Depression heyday - which was already before my time. I remember spooky old mansions, probably long vanished now, which already looked old even to me. (Think of the movies “Sunset Boulevard” or “Baby Jane” - which may even have filmed there.)
It’s amusing that this fellow, a Guatemalan, is complaining that these other groups have taken over “his” neighborhood! Back then, when I knew it, there were no Guatemalans anywhere to be seen. I never met a Guatemalan, or heard of a Salvadoran. Nor were there Thais, Koreans, Cambodians, Vietnamese, etc., etc. (Only a few Japanese and Chinese, the only Orientals, not the vast variety you have today.) However, Armenians had already been living there for about a century.
“His” neighborhood, indeed!
Armenians are among the most racially conscious nations in the world. They always form their own communities wherever they live (Turkey, Europe or USA). Even after 1000 years, there are still Armenian neighborhoods in Istanbul. My former chief was Armenian, his children are attending Armenian school, they very rarely intermarry.
Never call an Armenian or Turk “Middle Easterner”. They are just “Anatolians”.
I wonder if there are some places in New Hampshire or Kentucky that could still be called “little America”? Alas, there days are numbered by unchecked immigration.
“The United States is Protestant English to the core.”
Really? How about the Irish descended guys who signed the declaration of independence?
Or the Germans, French,Italians and Poles who built the country?
How about an article about my grandfather’s home neighborhood in Memphis being transformed from middle class white to a run down, crime ridden black neighborhood? Oh, that’s called “progress”, my bad.
“The United States is Protestant English to the core.”
Don’t forget the Scotts and Scotts Irish. Without whom there would be no America.
“The United States is Protestant English to the core.”
I wonder how many muslims, Pakistanis or Indians signed the Declaration of Independence??
Several points about the Armenians need to be mentioned.
1) In spite of what several posters have written about Armenians, they are not White (European Caucasian). They have never been White, and they’ll never be White. They are though, Caucasians (Europids).
2) Prof. Richard Lynn and Tatu Vanhanen estimate the IQ of your avg. Armenian to be 94. This would actually put them on par with several European ethnic groups. It would also explain the fairly high level of civilization the Armenians achieved (compared to many of their neighbors) before they were conquered by the Arabs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_Global_Inequality#National_IQ_and_economic_development
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenians#History
3) While I have read a number of articles on the Armenian mafia, in all fairness to them they are neither the most vicious or the most powerful of the ethnic gangs operating in this country. The most vicious is unquestionably “Mara Salvatrucha” or MS-13.
http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_23489.aspx
The most powerful (in terms of wealth and reach) without a doubt is the “Russkaya Mafiya,” a loose confederation of Russian, Chechen and Russian-Jewish mobs that have amassed considerable influence worldwide since the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991. Former FBI head Louis Freeh even once claimed they were the greatest threat to U.S. national security.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/special_report/1998/03/98/russian_mafia/70095.stm
4) Armenians are not one people. They are actually two peoples.
http://www.springerlink.com/content/lhlll6l3txeyyc5h/
5) Finally, rates of intermarriage between members of the Armenian Diaspora and members of their host countries (in the West, anyway) is about the same as with any other ethnic group.
http://www.armeniaemb.org/DiscoverArmenia/Diaspora/HistoryofDiaspora.htm
Conan the literate non-barbarian is partly right about the Irish connection.
One and only one of the Declaration of Independence signatories was a Catholic of Irish descent but a great many of the signatories were wholly or in part of Ulster-Scots descent, just as many later Presidents were of Ulster-Scots descent.
At the time of the War of Independence the population of the thirteen colonies was overwhelmingly of British Protestant descent. True, there were a few Swedes and Dutch, but not many. The Presidency of Martin van Buren lay in the future.
Check out the *vdare* site for a great deal on this topic.
Talking of ethnicities, what is truly astonishing is that a few Chinese fought in the U.S. Civil War.
Armenians aren’t so bad. They are Christians. In fact Armenia was the very first Christian kingdom in history. They are also traditionally very hostile to Islam and have historically (along with the Georgians) played a major “blocking” role in the Caucasus keeping Islam in check in that area of the world. Who can say how far northward into what is now Russia Islam might have penetrated without them? Likewise the much-misunderstood Serbs played an important role in the Balkans aginst muslim expansion. The Serbs (who regarded themselves as “the guardians of the gate”) took one for several centuries for the benefit of Europe.
We Armenians are typically hardwoking, industrious, intelligent, good looking people. We are not middle eastern (though my father was from Syria where our family settled after the Armenian holucaust). Most of us are integrated Americans and consider ourselves Americans first. Additionally, the greatest governor in California history was Armenian. Get your facts straight before you post.
“It would also explain the fairly high level of civilization the Armenians achieved (compared to many of their neighbors) before they were conquered by the Arabs.”
The Armenians were never “conquered by the Arabs”, nor were the Arabs even anywhere them.
Armenians are not white. They are turks, but christian. They are more related to khazar jews than to white europeans. They are not considered white in Europe or Russia. I am not surprised that they are considered white in USA, because whiteness have been so devalued in your nation. Many “white” americans would be very surprised if someone told them that they would not be considered white in Europe.
“a great many of the signatories were wholly or in part of Ulster-Scots descent, just as many later Presidents were of Ulster-Scots descent.”
Good post Bill, but a slight correction.
Ulster-Scots/Scots-Irish” is an artificial sub group created entirely along religious lines and are not a non Irish or a people apart from the Irish.
During the plantations of Ulster the majority who were sent there were enthic Anlgo Saxons from the Scottish borderlands which were then the territory of English Aryshire and Cumbria. A smaller number of them were Scots and French Huguenots.
When they arrived, they did not create a segregated comunity ala Sotuh Africa, but rather intermarried heavily with the Irish population in Ulster. The same thing happened with the Viking settlers in Dublin, Waterford and Wexford.
When Irish Protestants first went to America they openly identified themselves as Irish. The “Scots-Irish” label didn’t come along until later.
Armenians are very, very White (phenotypically). If Greeks or Jews are White, then so are Armenians. Taylor himself says Jews are White. Armenians are some of the purest Whites of them all - most White groups have a tiny bit of Black in them - but Armenians haven’t a trace.
We have a lot of them in Fresno to the south of me. In this town, it is 67% Hispanic, with the usual effects. I really wish that 5,000 of the Hispanics in this town would be replaced by 5,000 Armenians. It would be a much better place! Armenians are very good people. Armenians do NOT act like Hispanics. There are some Armenian street gangs, but they are better compared to the Irish and Italian street toughs of the East Coast - not model citizens, but much better than the Black and Hispanic street gang nightmare afflicting my state.
Armenians are deeply conservative, Old World people. Armenian girls may be chaperoned on dates. They assimilate, but they often still like to keep to themselves (sort of like Jews). Here, Armenians often speak Armenian and Armenian women want to date and marry Armenian guys. They are warm and friendly, have great food, and are very family-oriented. In Fresno, they cause very little crime or problems.
The only thing against them I might say is that they tend to be extremely ethnocentric and even paranoid, like the Jews. They have experienced discrimination and sometimes assume that you hate them. Also, some can have a rough, very extroverted, belligerent personality similar to stereotypes of Jews, Sicilians, etc.
Some Armenian women are very beautiful. I don’t know about IQ tests, but around here, they are quite intelligent. Certainly no match for the local Hispanics.
Armenians are white. As white as the Turks but far more white than black and amerindian mixed Americans or Russians with Mongloid grandfathers (note the Mongols were stopped in Western Poland - Silesia).
Both Armenians and Turks belong predominantly to the Armenoid/Anatolid europid subrace with strong Mediterranean admixture.
Armenians were NEVER conquered by Arabs but by Turks.
Definition of “white”:
EUROPID OR WHITE PRIMARY RACE: Thin to medium-thick, mostly more-or-less light skin. Soft, smooth to wavy or curly hair and generally a stronger growth of beard. A rather narrow nose and generally thin lips. Types of body build: mostly juvenile (virile) and boreal, occasionally mature.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPLPOwSqznY
In terms of natural geography Europe forms an appendage of the Eurasian continent. However, we can still not deny the great independence which our part of the world possesses when viewed from a purely anthropological standpoint. For Europe was and is up to our time the dwelling place of the bulk of the White or Europid race and for most of its pronounced subraces. To the south the region of the predominantly Europid race extends approximately to the northern border of the Sudan savannah. East of the Nile river, however, the racial boundary is very indistinct. In Asia Europid races fill up all of southwest Asia and predominate also in the north of western India—becoming rarer about the northern Deccan region and around the lower Ganges region.
—-Additionally, the greatest governor in California history was Armenian.—-
Saying that one of your own people to be the “greatest governor in California history” is proof positive that you are Armenian first, not American. Why not have only Armenians be our elected officials?
—-Don’t forget the Scotts and Scotts Irish. Without whom there would be no America.—-
—-a great many of the signatories were wholly or in part of Ulster-Scots descent, just as many later Presidents were of Ulster-Scots descent.—-
I do not wish to diminish the contribution of the Scots-Irish to the United States, but…the ENGLISH were coming here for over a hundred years before the Scots-Irish began coming here. They made up the majority of the population. We get our language and our laws from them. And yet the “W.A.S.P.” has become the “bad guy” who deserves no credit whatsoever except that of slaughtering innocent Indians.
I understand the English and Scots-Irish have a long history of hating each other, and that’s why the Scots-Irish wish to assert themselves regarding who formed the United States. But unfortunately, that hatred fueled, at least in part, the Civil War.
And if we really wish to give proper credit to the formation of the U.S., we should give it to King George, himself. If it weren’t for his corruption, the colonists would never have declared their independence. And today, we would still be living in New England.
This guy is ridiculous. The little Aremenia sign has been there for about 30 years. How old is he, 60? How many decades has it been since he was in the area?
“It would also explain the fairly high level of civilization the Armenians achieved (compared to many of their neighbors) before they were conquered by the Arabs.”http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_Global_Inequality#National_IQ_and_economic_development http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenians#History
The Armenians were never conquered by the Arabs. This shows how ignorant and false the liberal wikipedia is. Armenia was conquered by Muslims, but not Arab muslims. It was conquered by Turks, quite a different ethnic group than Arabs.
Information Insurgent is probably correct in Armenians not being white. By law since 1965, only 10% (and it’s actually been less) of legal immigrants can be white. Armenians have easy access to this country via immigration. Just ask them. They never have immigration problems. The Irish, Swedes, Germans, etc. have to sneak in or overstay visas, and the govt will go after them with relish, while passing by thousands of illegal latinos on the street. Glendale is for the most part a quiet city. Not so E. Hollywood or most other sections of Los Angeles.
Anonymous at 2:32 AM on January 29 wrote:
“The Armenians were never “conquered by the Arabs”, nor were the Arabs even anywhere them.” [sic]
Yes, they did in fact conquer Armenia.
http://www.iranica.com/newsite/index.isc?Article=http://www.iranica.com/newsite/articles/unicode/v8f5/v8f561.html
Robert Lindsay:
You’re in California. Remember Gov. George Deukmejian? He’s Armenian-American, and probably the most conservative California governor since Reagan.
Bill Corr at 9:30 PM on January 28 wrote:
“Talking of ethnicities, what is truly astonishing is that a few Chinese fought in the U.S. Civil War.”
Your post interested me. I did a little research (I love the Internet!) and apparently it’s true. Their numbers, it seems, were very small (probably less than 100 fought on both sides) but it did happen.
http://chinarhyming.blogspot.com/2008/12/chinese-in-american-civil-war.html
It might interest some American history buffs to learn who else fought in the “War between the States.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand_Watie
http://www.ustica.org/genealogy/italian_brigade.htm
I do hope that those posters who are bloviating about the ethnicity and race of Armenians have seen some actual Armenians.
I live in the Los Angeles area and am familiar with Armenians. They have black and all shades of brown hair from dark to light. Their complexions range from light tan to very pale, almost Irish pale. Their eye color ranges from very dark brown almost black through all the shades of dark and light brown and hazel and gray. I’ve never seen a blue eyed Armenian or a natural red or blonde haired Armenian.
Their features are typical of the average European. Despite the fact that Armenia is in Asia, they are a European caucasian people, quite different from southern Arab and Indian caucasians.
Soooooo, we’re in agreement that no muslims, Pakistanis or Indians (from India) signed the Declaration of Independence?
QD, as a native Californian, of course I remember George Duekmejian. But no one thought of him as “the Armenian.” Here in CA, no one cares about Armenians. We’re so swamped with Hispanics and all sorts of other non-Whites, Armenians are breath of fresh air. Around here, Armenians, Greeks, Italians, Portuguese, Spaniards and other White ethnics are pretty much the White ruling class. Those are the Whites with the money who call the shots.
Armenians do tend to be conservative politically, and Armenian pols tend to be pretty hard-Right Republicans. But that’s the White vote in California right there. We have worse things to worry about here than rightwing Whites. CA Republicans are going the dinosaur route anyway. This whole state is being transformed into a province of Mexico. That’s the REAL issue around these parts.
William Cutting at 12:53 PM on January 29 wrote:
“Both Armenians and Turks belong predominantly to the Armenoid/Anatolid europid subrace with strong Mediterranean admixture.”
Dated data from long-dead physical anthropologists do not bolster the contention the Armenians are White. Whites are European Caucasians. That is, their gene pools plainly put them in the European cluster. Armenians do not cluster with Europeans.
http://www.familytreedna.com/pdf/caucasus.pdf
From the article:
“Overall, the Caucasus groups showed greater similarity with West Asian than with European groups for both genetic systems, although this similarity was much more pronounced for the Y chromosome than for mtDNA, suggesting that male-mediated migrations from West Asia have influenced the genetic structure of Caucasus populations.”
Armenia, of course, is located in Southeastern Turkey and the Southern Caucasus.
As I stated on another thread, peoples like the Armenians are part of the Greater Caucasoid race of mankind. The various subdivisions of this race are much more closely related with one another than they are with members of other races. This fact was recognized as far back as the latter part of the 18th century.
[See “Race:” by Dr. John R. Baker, pp. 24-26]
It’s no wonder then you would find Armenians (or Berbers, or Kalash, or Nuristanians, et al) who would at first glance resemble Europeans.
As to the fact many if not most Armenians lean to the right politically? Who cares? Japanese-Americans tend to lean to the right politically. Does that make them White as well?
An ‘aside’ here people, if you don’t mind.
As long as you are going to mess around with genes, you may as well toss out outlier Europeans like Basques and Sardinians. Sardinians are way outside the rest of Europeans, and on some charts, Basques are further away than Iranians. Greeks and Yugoslavs are also super-outliers. Iranians seem to be closer to mainstream Europeans than Greeks. If you’re going to split off Caucasians genetically, you need to split off Basques, Sardinians and probably even Greeks and Yugoslavs.
BTW, Russians tend to cluster quite closely with Caucasians and away from mainstream Europeans on some tests.
I would just chuck genes altogether and go with a phenotypic approach to being White. By this approach, Whites are found in many places, even outside of Europe. If folks outside of Europe look (and especially act) like Europeans, then they are White. We could even split Turks into White Turks (about 1/3 of them look as White as Slavs) and regular Turks, who are more Asiatic.
If you look White and act White, then you’re White.
Robert Lindsay at 3:37 AM on January 31 wrote:
“Sardinians are way outside the rest of Europeans, and on some charts, Basques are further away than Iranians.”
What studies show Sardinians “way outside the rest of Europeans”? What studies show Iranians closer to Europeans than Basques?
http://www.corrupt.org/drupal/files/images/europe_variation.jpg
http://dienekes.50webs.com/blog/archives/000155.html
“Iranians seem to be closer to mainstream Europeans than Greeks.”
Nonsense!
http://dienekes.50webs.com/arp/articles/greekadna/
(Pay close attention to Figure C)
” We could even split Turks into White Turks (about 1/3 of them look as White as Slavs)”
As the above article clearly shows, that is because Western Turks are mainly the descendants of Anatolian Greeks.
“If you look White and act White, then you’re White.”
The Marxist, anti-White writer Noel Ignatiev would agree with you, since you just concurred with his thesis that “White” is nothing more than a “social construct.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noel_Ignatiev
“Armenia, of course, is located in Southeastern Turkey and the Southern Caucasus.”
I think you meant to say that Armenia is located in Northeastern Turkey. In the Southeast would be Kurds.
“Armenians are the most ethno-centric folks I have ever met
I am a bit less tactful. After having lived in both Glendale and Fresno, I find that in general Armenians are among the most bigoted, snotty, self-centered, ethno-centric, conniving people it has ever been my displeasure to know.
I care not that they are “white”, or that they are “Christian”. I do not have the time of day for those people. You may think that Mexicans, Koreans, and Africans refuse to get along but rest assured: of your last name does not end in “ian” or “yan”, you are an outsider even if your family has lived there for 200 years.
“having lived in Glendale and Fresno, I find that …Armenians are among the most bigoted… ethno-centric, conniving people it has ever been my displeasure to know.” - friendly grizzly
I take it from one who apparently knows. And from one who has always spoken well of others in the past. That makes it the more impressive.
Perhaps this has been at the root of their troubles in Turkey? Generally, another group does not gang up on a disliked group without having good cause. WHY were they disliked? There’s always a second side to a story. I have to wonder.
Why were Armenians disliked?
