A Rising Tide of Migrants Unsettles Athens
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Niki Kitsantonis, International Herald Tribune, October 2, 2008
About 80,000 migrants have traveled to Greece this year and decided to stay illegally, according to the authorities, who say the country can no longer handle the task of guarding the European Union’s southeast flank.
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The historic center of Athens has been riven by several street battles in recent months, involving what the police characterize as rival groups, often involved in dealing drugs, from Afghanistan, Iraq and war-torn African countries wielding swords, axes and machetes.
{snip}
The unrest in Athens has triggered a backlash from the far-right party Laos [“the People”], whose popularity has jumped to 5.4 percent in opinion polls from 3.5 percent when it entered Parliament a year ago.
{snip}
(Posted on October 3, 2008)
Refugees Kept at Sea
Apostolis Fotiadis, Inter Press Service International Association (Rome), September 26, 2008
When the people of Patmos blocked a group of refugees landing on their island last Sunday, they raised questions about both refugees and about Greece that have not gone away.
The people of Patmos, an island of 2,984 that lies 220 km east of Athens, close to the border with Turkey, had decided two weeks earlier, with the support of local authorities, not to let any refugees ashore.
They acted on that decision when they gathered at the port, led by the mayor, against a group of 133 irregular migrants, mostly women and children from Iraq and Afghanistan. The refugees had earlier crossed over from Turkey to the Greek island Agathonisi which has a population of just 80.
In line with common practice, the traffickers destroyed the boats that brought them, in order to prevent the Greek naval police sending their boats back.
This group of refugees stayed on in Agathonisi, that lacks necessary provisions and infrastructure, until their transfer to Patmos, the closest island with a police department. But this time the refusal by the people of Patmos to accept them brought almost a humanitarian crisis.
Evagelos Kottoros, representative of the community in Agathonisi, described the situation to Kathimerini newspaper.
“More are arriving constantly with so many children. Patmos will not accept them, I have been speaking with the authorities and I do not know what is going to happen. There is no food left to give them, not even dry clothes. I do not know what to do. They spent the previous night in the community’s warehouse. I am afraid we will not manage another night.”
Minister for the Interior Prokopis Pavlopoulos had to intervene before authorities directed the migrants to Leros, another island some miles further south of Patmos.
But the decision by Patmos residents raises questions about the legality of the measures undertaken, and their consequences.
George Mastropetros, head of the Patmos municipal council, acknowledged to IPS in a telephone interview that their decision was a harsh measure that bypasses legal procedures.
“But you have to understand that this is the last measure available left to us to protect the viability of our community which depends only on tourism. Patmos is left without infrastructure and has a very small police force in order to provide even the basics for these people. As a result they survive in disgraceful conditions around the port until they manage to leave for Athens.”
Mastropetros said the local community opposes the establishment of a detention centre on the island. Many other islands do not want to host such centres.
A big increase in migrant arrivals this year has overstretched the capacity of many Greek islands. Mastropetros said 4,500 people have arrived in Patmos since January, 700 during the first week of September.
Leros has accepted 2,600 since the beginning of the year, about 2,000 already more than last year.
The deteriorating situation exposes the lack of a coherent policy in Greece to deal with the increasing migration flows directed by smugglers and corrupted Turkish officials towards Greek islands.
Last month Greek newspapers published pictures of Turkish naval police vessels landing migrants on an islet in Greek waters.
Both countries share a vast naval frontier, and activists accuse each of unofficially pushing migrants to the other side. Greek officials often turn a blind eye to issues raised by local communities, indirectly transferring responsibility to local people.
“At least they could offer us the administrative capacity to deal with it,” Mastropetros said. “Nobody is happy that these people have to suffer like that. We have been accepting illegal migrants on the island and helped them for 15 years already, and so I believe that accusing us of xenophobic behaviour is at the least unfair.”
Comments
It’s as though one was reading an ancient history book and learning about the migrations of the sea peoples into archaic Greece, or the attacks of the Persians. Where is Themistocles and his fleet of triremes to repel the invaders?
Posted by Dave at 7:32 PM on October 3
The sad truth is that we lost Greece ages ago. They’re genetically closer to Turks (having been part of the Ottoman empire for a long time) and Persians (interbreeding with whom goes back to the times of Alexander the Great) than to other Europeans now. (the ancient Greeks have actually been described as surprisingly light complexioned for the inhabitants of a country fairly far south)
No wonder Greece is one of the EU’s poorest countries these days.
In the words of a Greek I once knew: “You could say the Turks destroyed us”.
There’s a lesson in this for the rest of us.
Posted by at 9:59 PM on October 3
Dear brother Greeks,
You are the cradle of Western Civilization ; again, you must fight for all of Christendom and European peoples. May we have the political strength to join you in this struggle to avoid our own genetic and cultural holocaust.
Posted by Michigan Patriot at 10:25 PM on October 3
Perhaps the Greeks need to remember how their ancestors handled middle-eastern invaders. WWKLD: What Would King Leonidas Do?
Posted by Jill at 11:14 PM on October 3
I think 9:59PM is overly pessimistic about the Greeks.
I also want to way that we should think about what it would mean if Turkey gets into the EU. The invasion of Europe could then come pouring in through Turkey, with Turks gladly assisting them. In that case, we haven’t seen anything yet!
“The deteriorating situation exposes the lack of a coherent policy in Greece to deal with the increasing migration flows directed by smugglers and corrupted Turkish officials towards Greek islands. Both countries share a vast naval frontier…
Last month Greek newspapers published pictures of Turkish naval police vessels landing migrants on an islet in Greek waters.”
Posted by at 4:55 AM on October 4
“It is inaccurate to say that the modern Greeks are different physically from the ancient Greeks; such a statement is based on an ignorance of the Greek ethnic character…. The Greeks, in short, are a blend of [sub]racial types, of which two are most important: the Atlanto-Mediterranean and the Alpine. Dinaricism here is present, but not all pervading; true Alpines are commoner than complete Dinarics. The Nordic element is weak, as it probably has been since the days of Homer. The racial type to which Socrates belonged [Alpine] is today the most important, while the Atlanto-Mediterranean, prominent in Greece since the Bronze Age, is still a major factor. It is my personal reaction to the living Greeks that their continuity with their ancestors of the ancient world is remarkable, rather than the opposite.”
(Coon, 1939)
A recent paper has detected clades of haplogroups J and E3b that were likely not part of pre-historic migrations into Europe, but rather spread by later historical movements. Greeks possess none of the lineages denoting North African ancestry within the last 5000 years, and have only 2% (3/148) of the marker J-M267, which may reflect more recent Middle Eastern admixture.
(Semino et al. 2004)
An analysis of 10 autosomal allele frequencies in Southern Europeans (including Greeks, Cretans and other islanders) and various Middle Eastern and North African populations revealed a “line of sharp genetic change [that] runs from Gibraltar to Lebanon,” which has divided the Mediterranean into distinct northern and southern clusters since at least the Neolithic period. The authors conclude that “gene flow was more the exception than the rule,” attributing this result to “a joint product of initial geographic isolation and successive cultural divergence, leading to the origin of cultural barriers to population admixture.”
(Simoni et al. 1999)
http://racialreality.shorturl.com/
http://racialreality.blogspot.com/
EUROPEAN GENETIC VARIATION
http://racialreality.110mb.com/genetic_variation.html
PHOTO SERIES
Parallels: Old and New Greeks
http://dienekes.110mb.com/pictures/parallels/
Composite Greeks: the Ancient and the Modern
http://dienekes.110mb.com/pictures/composites/
Greek Parliamentarians
http://racialreality.110mb.com/parliament_gr.html
REFERENCES
http://racialreality.110mb.com/references.html#Coon_1939
Posted by at 7:34 AM on October 4
Of course, historically, from small skirmishes such as this big wars start.
The only difference in this case it is the people themselves who are taking active moves to defend their territory.Apparently their government is not interested or sides with the invaders.
Posted by Kenelm Digby at 8:18 AM on October 4
I agree with the first anonymous post. I dispute the extent to which Greeks can be considered European or White. They are clearly Turkicised beyond European recognition. John Julius Norwich illustrates in his history of Byzantium how the original Greek stock was eradicated by Slavs, first in the 7th century, and then heavily contaminated with Turkish stock for over five centuries.
To put it another way, what have the Greeks produced since the Hellenistic era? Nothing. I am increasingly under the impression that Classical Greece was a flash in the pan. Greeks are culturally more akin to Turks and Lebanese and I know. Just go to Cyprus and try to differentiate between a Turkish Cypriot and Greek Cypriot. Europe, culturally and ethnically, excludes geographically European countries like Albania, Greece, Bulgaria, Bosnia, Kosovo, parts of Romania etc.
Posted by Gaber at 3:10 PM on October 4
But 23% of Greek males possess the distinctive African haplotype E3b. E3b along with E3a are the 2 most predominant haplogroups in Africa.
Posted by OCCAM at 5:53 PM on October 4
The invaders should be facing armed Spartans, ready to repel them as at the battle of Thermopylae.
Nothing has changed in 2000 years - the East is still trying to invade the West.
The ‘battle of Patmos’ was a small victory for Greece, but a victory none-the-less.
Posted by at 6:14 PM on October 4
“I agree with the first anonymous post. I dispute the extent to which Greeks can be considered European or White. They are clearly Turkicised beyond European recognition. “
……………………..
I works both ways. When the Ottoman and Seljuk Turks arrived on the scene, these nomadic Central Asiatic tribes wre relatively small in numbers compared to the whole Byzantine Empire which they eventually conquered and absorbed. They took harems from the women of the conquered populations and thus increased their numbers enormously over several centuries, each generation becoming only half as Turkish (genetically) as their fathers, though they remained culturally Turkish. The modern Turks are thus probably more “Greekicized” than, as you say “Turkicized”.
Posted by ghw at 10:16 PM on October 4
I am increasingly under the impression that Classical Greece was a flash in the pan.
Greeks are culturally more akin to Turks and Lebanese and I know. Just go to Cyprus and try to differentiate between a Turkish Cypriot and Greek Cypriot. Europe, culturally and ethnically, excludes geographically European countries like Albania, Greece, Bulgaria, Bosnia, Kosovo, parts of Romania etc.
Posted by Gaber
…………………………….
I’ll agree that it can be difficult to tell a Greek from a Turk. Aside from religion, and certain cultural practices, there isn’t much distinguishing many of them. But keep your opinion to yourself! Either one of them will be furious to hear it.
Once, on a plane to Istanbul, I asked the airline steward if he spoke Greek. (I meant no harm.) He didn’t! It turned out he was Turkish — and he was VERY insulted!
Posted by ghw at 10:29 PM on October 4
“[A] group of 133 irregular migrants, mostly women and children from Iraq and Afghanistan. The refugees had earlier crossed over from Turkey to the Greek island Agathonisi which has a population of just 80.”
There is something fishy about this. Why did these presumably Muslim “refugees” from Iraq and Afghanistan want to leave Turkey (a Muslim country to which they had already “escaped”) to settle in Greece, which is culturally Christian?
Posted by Randy Bright at 1:26 AM on October 5
This is the modern way for Musliims to eventually take over a country. Their poor come over in waves over time looking pathetic and getting all kinds of symphathy and when their numbers increase enough for real political power the stupid infidels will be helpless.
Posted by at 9:35 AM on October 5
Greeks are fiercely Christian Orthodox, and proud of it. Since the invaders from Afghanistan and Iraq are unwashed Muslims, get ready for fireworks.
May we live in interesting times.
Posted by Soprano Fan at 10:04 AM on October 5
These land masses we occupy will be here forever, but the peoples and political entities that live on them are transitory.
Posted by at 2:02 PM on October 5
“Irregular migrants” !!! WHAT?
Is this the latest euphemism that has been coined to replace the banished term, illegal aliens?
“This is the modern way for Muslims to eventually take over a country. Their poor come over in waves over time, looking pathetic and getting all kinds of symphathy…”
Yes! We have to realize that this is the new form of warfare and conquest. Our politicians and military are out of date — still stuck on old concepts of war involving battleships, tanks, armies, and airplanes. That was the past! The world has changed. Meanwhile, our officials are totally clueless to the hordes slipping in as refugees and illegal aliens, students, phoney tourists, and asylum seekers. We are being conquered from within while our military is deployed on the other side of the earth, watching other people’s borders, “fighting them over there so we don’t have to fight them over here.” Yeah, right!
Posted by voter at 2:16 PM on October 5
“The sad truth is that we lost Greece ages ago. They’re genetically closer to Turks (having been part of the Ottoman empire for a long time) and Persians (interbreeding with whom goes back to the times of Alexander the Great) than to other Europeans now.”
Yes, there has been some intermixture with the Turks, and most modern Greeks will admit this, but I won’t give up on Greece, the birthplace of Western Civilization. After all, the Turks, some of who have light hair and blue eyes, are Caucasians as well. The Ancient Greeks were probably fairer, but the facial profiles and figures of many modern Greeks are remarkably similar. Greece is a small country, poor by EU standards, but with a rich history: why should its national character be changed by unnecessary and illegal immigration? What business do Muslims and Africans have in Greece? I say send them packing.
Posted by Sardonicus at 2:18 PM on October 5
I think there’s been more admixture of Greeks into Turks than of Turks into Greeks. After all, everything that is now Turkey was once Greek. But Greece was not created out of Turkey.
Posted by at 6:02 AM on October 6
“Ancient Greeks were probably fairer”
In fact is the opposite. Nordic or Central contribution to the Greeks became significant only after classic times (Germanic and Slav invasions). Ancient paintings don´t show blondes persons, except like slaves or mercenaries (or gladiatores in Roman period). The Turkish rule don´t change nothing. Turks are predominatly Caucasians of Mediterranic type, like Greeks. The Mongolian contribution to the Turks is less than 5%. Similar to the Indian (also Mongolic) in some groups of White Americans. You have to understand that Civilization was created by “dark” Caucasians (Romans,Persians,Sumerians,Hittites, etç..).
Posted by at 7:42 AM on October 6
Gaber at 3:10 PM on October 4 wrote:
“To put it another way, what have the Greeks produced since the Hellenistic era? Nothing. I am increasingly under the impression that Classical Greece was a flash in the pan.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savas_Dimopoulos
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vassilis_Angelopoulos
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demetrios_Christodoulou
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Christofilos
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emilios_T._Harlaftis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Lykoudis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgios_Papanikolaou
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vangelis
To name but a few.
Posted by at 4:11 PM on October 6
Every college history book I have ever read on ancient Greece— or at least those published before 1976 or so when it became too un-PC to mention it— states that the ancient Greeks during the time of the flowering of Greek civilization were a combination of Nordic and Alpine people who invaded from the northeast.
Do they look that way now?
Posted by at 4:30 PM on October 6
@Anonymous 7:42 AM
Turks are heavily admixed with Semitic, Turkic (obviously), Mongolian and Slavic elements. In the strictest sense of the word, none of these macro-groups are especially White, though Slavs are generally interpreted as falling within a broader White family. I don’t think many Greeks survived the Ottoman invasion of Turkey (not many Celts survived the Anglo-Saxon invasions of Britain, outside Wales and Cornwall), as evidenced by the complete shift in language, culture and religion.
I agree that Mediterranean cultures created Western civilization. No doubt about that. Sumerians were probably not White as we would know them today, though. I have nothing against Greeks per se, or anyone else for that matter. I’m just pointing out that they are as, if not more, Near Eastern than European. Make your own definition of White and see where they fall, in other words.
Posted by Gaber at 4:32 PM on October 6
The history of Greece has been that of repulsing one alien invader after another. I have every confidence they will have no problem dealing with the latest invaders…
Posted by at 5:25 PM on October 6
They’re genetically closer to Turks (having been part of the Ottoman empire for a long time) and Persians (interbreeding with whom goes back to the times of Alexander the Great) than to other Europeans now.”
Not true in the least. 6:02 AM and 7:42 are correct on this one. It was the Turks who were genetically “Greekified” upon their arrival into Asia Minor, which was at the time populated by a mix of Greeks, Armenians, Jews, and native mediterranean peoples. Islam spread much faster than the watered-down Mongoloid genes brought by the Turkish tribes, and relatively few of the authentically Asiatic Turks settled down in Greece.
Moreover, those that were in Greece were expelled during the population transfer of Muslims and Christians in the early 1900s. Since the Ottomans had pursued aggressive policies of conversion in both Greece and Turkey, those remaining Greek Orthodox Christians in Turkey were almost assuredly ethnic Greek, while Muslims in Greece were a mixture of immigrant Turks and native converts. So, while the transfer was a loss for Christianity, racially speaking it was more of a wash — Greece rid itself of virtually all Turks, while Turkey swapped out Christian Greeks for Muslim ones.
Posted by Dave at 8:02 PM on October 6
To put it another way, what have the Greeks produced since the Hellenistic era?
Papa Smear for cervical cancer prevention
El Greco (the famous “Spanish Painter”)
Aristotle Onassis (Shipping Magnate)
Recently a French citizen of Greek descent was measured to have the highest IQ.
Anyway look at America, Britain and France..interbreeding with blacks is much more a PALE Northern White Female thing to do than a Southern European thing to do.
Posted by at 10:20 PM on October 6
“To put it another way, what have the Greeks produced since the Hellenistic era? Nothing. I am increasingly under the impression that Classical Greece was a flash in the pan.”
I disagree with that completely. The Greeks remained at the top of European culture for a very long period, not just the Hellenistic one.
The superiority of Greece was such that not only the Greek culture replaced the Latin one as the high culture of the Roman Empire, Greece even replaced Rome as the main centre of power. The late Emperors spent more time in Greece than they did in Italy.
This is obvious after the east-west split, with the Western empire being quickly destroyed while the Eastern (Greek) one surviving for anouther thousand years.
During the Dark Ages, the East was more prosperous and urbanized than the West. When the First Crusade passed through Costantinople, the Westerners were in awe at the wealth and refinement found there.
In fact, during that period Greece expanded their own culture into Russia, including religion and writing (Cyrillic being an offshot of Greek script).
So I wouldn’t say that “classical Greece was a flash in the pan”. I would rather say that Greece has always been a great cornerstone of Europe, until the moment when they were conquered by Islam. Only then they declined, inevitably.
Posted by at 5:53 AM on October 7
Same thing in Spain: as has been said, “Europe ends at the
Pyrenees”. Once we win our freedom, some Whites will voluntarily
practice Eugenics to ensure the survival of the beautiful and
valuable Aryan genotype. This will in no way threaten our friend-
ship and alliance with other White or even Caucasian groups. After all, Christian Lebanese and Armenians are fine people and
good allies, but they are not White. Nobody will have cause to
complain-they all like Blondes after all.
Posted by Eric the Red at 11:01 PM on October 7
“I think there’s been more admixture of Greeks into Turks than of Turks into Greeks.”
As Dave pointed out, many Greeks were (under great pressure) converted to Islam and became “Turks”. But no Moslem Turks were pressured to convert to Christianity and become Greeks. Moslems don’t convert! Thus, largely because of religion (but also who held political power) the gene movement was one-way.
“look at America, Britain and France…interbreeding with blacks is much more a PALE Northern White Female thing to do than a Southern European thing to do.”
That’s a flippant comment. This is not a widespread practice, even now. And more importantly, it’s not at all traditional or typical. It’s something quite new that’s been popularized (largely with government and media propaganda) only in recent decades, and it is totally against everything our culture has always stood for. It’s a novelty and an anomaly.
Posted by browser at 6:33 AM on October 8
In fact is the opposite. Nordic or Central contribution to the Greeks became significant only after classic times (Germanic and Slav invasions). Ancient paintings don´t show blondes persons, except like slaves or mercenaries (or gladiatores in Roman period).
Paintings are not entirely reliable as few have survived. Most are from Hellenistic Egypt or Asia Minor. The Greek temples and statues were painted in lively colors that have completely vanished. Read you Homer: frequent references are made to the “grey eyed Athena” and much of the conflict within the Greek camp in the Iliad is over who gets the blond Briseis. There are many other examples from ancient literature.
Posted by Sardonicus at 7:40 AM on October 8
The entire nation of Greece need to be forced to watch the movie “300” about a dozen times so they can rembember who they are and from whence they came…
Posted by at 1:39 PM on October 8
…many Greeks were (under great pressure) converted to Islam and became “Turks”. But no Moslem Turks were pressured to convert to Christianity and become Greeks.
Browser makes the good point, which I wasn’t quite clear enough about, that in the history of Greek-Turkish relations, going back centuries, “Greek” and “Turk” were not racial designations, but religious ones. Hundreds of thousands of “Turks” from Crete were shipped to Turkey during the population exchange, despite them being obviously of Greek ancestry. Meanwhile, hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of Greek-speaking “Turks” along the Black Sea coast were allowed to stay in Turkey, when they all had Greek surnames and spoke (and still speak, to a lesser degree) an ancient Greek dialect (but were nominal Muslims).
For all this debate about the modern inhabitants of the Greek mainland, I think it’s a good bet that you could find some of the most authentically ancient Greek faces in and around the ancient seaport town of Trabzon, on the Black Sea — where a version of ancient Greek is still spoken by thousands of people.
Posted by Dave at 4:15 PM on October 8