Italian War Veterans Denounce ‘Insulting’ Spike Lee Film
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Richard Owen, Times (London), Sept. 30, 2008
Italian partisan organisations are to stage protests tomorrow at the Italian premiere of Spike Lee’s film Miracle at St. Anna, which they say is full of lies, and insults the memory of the Italian Resistance during the Second World War.
The controversial film, already released in the United States, will be running in Italian cinemas from Friday. But it is being shown first at Viareggio on the Tuscan coast, close to the village of Sant’ Anna di Stazzema in the Apennine hills above, where 560 civilians—including women and children—were murdered in cold blood in August 1944 by Nazi SS troops as they retreated northwards in the face of the Allied advance.
Miracle at St. Anna, which highlights the role of African-American soldiers in the war, suggests that anti-Fascist partisans indirectly caused the atrocity by first taking refuge in the village and then abandoning the villagers to their fate.
It even shows a partisan named Rodolfo collaborating with the Nazis. This runs directly counter to the accepted Italian version of events, which is that the slaughter was not a reprisal but an unprovoked act of brutality and that the hunt for partisans was a pretext.
It also questions one of the founding myths of Italy’s postwar democracy, which holds that the help the partisans gave to the Allies regained Italy the honour it had lost under Benito Mussolini, the Fascist dictator, by allying itself with Hitler and Nazi Germany.
At a press screening in Rome, James McBride, the black American Second World War veteran who wrote the novel on which Mr Lee’s film is based, said: “I am very sorry if I have offended the partisans. I have enormous respect for them. As a black American, I understand what it’s like for someone to tell your history, and they are not you.”
He added: “But unfortunately, the history of World War II here in Italy is ours as well, and this was the best I could do … it is after all a work of fiction, not a history book.”
Spike Lee was also unrepentant, saying: “I am not apologising for anything.” He told Italians that there was clearly “a lot about your history you have yet to come to grips with … This film is our interpretation, and I stand behind it.”
Mr Lee said that the film, which follows the fate of four black GIs, was intended “to restore the voice of black soldiers who fought in the war.” He said that “not all Italians admired the partisans”, many of whom had fled to the mountains and left civilians to face the Nazis. “I have not invented anything,” he declared.
However Giovanni Cipollini, the deputy head of the partisans’ association Anpi, at the town of Pietrasanta in Tuscany, said that the film was a “false reconstruction” and a “travesty of history”. Didala Gherarducci, the secretary of Anpi at Viareggio, said that her husband had died in the massacre, and that she had written to Mr Lee to tell him that his “false” version of events “weighs on my heart like a stone”.
The film has so far been given a mixed reception in the US, where in its first week it took only $3.5 million at the box office. Mr Lee said that he had made it to counteract war films such as Clint Eastwood’s Letters From Iwo Jima and Flags of Our Fathers, in which black US troops hardly figured.
Six former SS officers were sentenced to life in absentia three years ago for the Sant’ Anna atrocity. The prosecutions followed the discovery by a journalist in 1994 of a cabinet in the Rome military archives—dubbed “the cabinet of shame”—which contained evidence of war crimes hushed up by successive postwar Italian governments in order not to revive hostility towards Germany, by then a democratic member of the EU and NATO.
(Posted on September 30, 2008)
Comments
This is unbecoming. Both sides should get back to what they do best: hating the white ‘establishment’ and capitalism in particular. Can’t we just all agree on the fundamentals?
Posted by at 4:48 PM on September 30
Black mythology of World War II, by blacks, can be rationalized, because they contributed very little to the war effort.
It can be agued that they had a negative effect on the war effort because of their lack of ability and their divisiveness with Whites, especially White Southerners.
My English teacher at my Chicago prep school reminisced every once in awhile about his WW II combat days (he was a retired full colonel).
While recovering from wounds, he was transferred to command black troops. As he said, half were in the stockade and the other were guarding the first half.
Posted by Sissy White at 4:57 PM on September 30
I have to sigh annoyed; every time i read something like this.
American blacks really think they’re all knowing and have done the greatest of deeds don’t they? The Italians don’t know their history, YOU do.
Such children.
Posted by Stuck in No Mans Land at 5:10 PM on September 30
“where 560 civilians were murdered…” Is this the incident they made a movie out of starring Richard Burton as an SS commander? And that famous `60`s Italian playboy actor as a priest? And in the end Burton puts the bullet in the back of his Priest friends head? It was reprisal for a partisan attack on a German column in the streets of Rome. Can anyone help me with the name of this movie?!?
Posted by Tim Mc Hugh at 5:15 PM on September 30
It’s too bad that the Italians can’t do to James McBride and Spike Lee what they did to Mussolini!!
Posted by kitty at 5:18 PM on September 30
Speaking of black American soldiers and Italy, Emmett Till’s father, Louis Till, was court martialed and executed for having raped and murdered an Italian woman. I think the year was 1944. This has been whitewashed in the “official” history of the family, but it leaked out in LIFE magazine (?) during the height of the Emmett Till story in 1955 (?). This fact, combined with the fact that Emmett Till himself was arrogant and cocky, and knew nothing but the Chicagograd atmosphere were blacks were pandered to, groveled to, is used by those of us who speculate that Emmett Till did slightly more than let out a wolf whistle at the wife of one of the men accused of murdering Emmett Till. You know, the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.
Posted by Question Diversity at 5:40 PM on September 30
I assumed that - as with all Spike Lee films - he’d use his “creative talents” to get one on Whitey, so to speak.
Was I right?
“a lot about your history you have yet to come to grips with”
The arrogance of Spike Lee in telling those Italians that he, and the author of the book (which he admits is FICTION), are right and the numerous Italian historians that covered the massacre are wrong, is appalling:
Maybe someone should remind Lee of the fact that he, and the rest of the “African-American” community, should also come to terms with the fact their African brethren CAPTURED and SOLD them to European slavers, as opposed to the mythological “evil European slavers braving unkown jungles, lethal diseases and hostile tribesmen to enslave whole villages of Africans - male and female, children and elderly”?
Oh, that’d be racist, wouldn’t it?
“This film is our interpretation, and I stand behind it.”
Heavy emphasis on “OUR” interpretation:
Basically, the “African-American” soldiers are heroes worthy of epics in their name, while the Italians partisans are cowardly, untrustworthy slime.
Spikey, Spikey, Spikey…
Posted by Obscuratus at 6:05 PM on September 30
If it was a spike lee movie it had to insult someone.It is almost always the Italians whom he insults.It about time someone noticed. Anyone ever see Do the Right Thing,Jungle Fever or New Jack City. You will know what I am talking about.
Posted by Tony Soprano. at 6:48 PM on September 30
I remember that there was a local historical fiction book written by someone local, circulating around in Slovenia in 1999 that depiected Slovenian children assisting a downed Black American fighter pilot. It was a really dumb stretch created to show themselves that they were racist like Americans are…. I recall telling my friend how naive Slovenians were when they can hardly get along with their White neighbors and have no history of having to deal with Blacks.
Posted by Whiteplight at 7:03 PM on September 30
I see Spike Lee and other Africans Americans are not only good at exaggerating their American experience but their experience all over the world. I have long questioned the narrative of African Americans. They love pity and they love guilt even more. Perhaps they think the Italians would have been more welcoming of the lies that white Americans so shamefully accept without question.
Posted by GetBackJack at 7:06 PM on September 30
“The film has so far been given a mixed reception in the US, where in its first week it took only $3.5 million at the box office. Mr Lee said that he had made it to counteract war films such as Clint Eastwood’s Letters From Iwo Jima and Flags of Our Fathers, in which black US troops hardly figured. “
> I guess I have about every bit of film footage that was shot during WW2 in the Pacific. I can’t recall ever seeing a Black Marine or for example, a fighter pilot. As far as I know, the Navy and Marines did not use Blacks for combat, but kept them in the rear, driving supply trucks and working below decks on ships.
The great travesty of the Pacific war was stationing so many Blacks on all those Islands. They ruined the Polynesian gene pool on many an Island.
It appears to me that Spike Lee knows very little history, but has a huge need for revisioning history to his likes, or to create impressions that have no foundation in history.
Posted by Whiteplight at 7:09 PM on September 30
I’m not going to see the film, can someone tell me if Spikey included scenes of the reputed raping and pillaging that our fine blak heroes did?
Posted by at 7:18 PM on September 30
This quote says it all “… it is after all a work of fiction, not a history book.”
Posted by Dead in Denver at 7:28 PM on September 30
He added: “But unfortunately, the history of World War II here in Italy is ours as well, and this was the best I could do … it is after all a work of fiction, not a history book.”
Spike Lee was also unrepentant, saying: “I am not apologising for anything.” He told Italians that there was clearly “a lot about your history you have yet to come to grips with … This film is our interpretation, and I stand behind it.”
- Listen to this outright arrogance in the face of historical evidence. This is right up there with the flying machines and building the pyramids. There is no way whites will ever be able to live with these infantile ‘people’. We will never be at peace or left alone by them. Like in an abusive marriage, before we suffer death. There is only one avenue left. We must be divorced.
Posted by Jason Denato at 7:28 PM on September 30
Atleast the questions of bias have little to do with it being focused on black soldiers.
Posted by at 7:44 PM on September 30
Apparently the Italians are still not courageous enough to resist the more pernicious lie this movie tells - that blacks acted with honor, valor, and importance during WWII, or in any other war, for that matter (or is the media simply refusing to tell how the Italians really feel?). I don’t think it’s an accident that now that memories of that time are dying, blacks and their boosters are now reinventing their participation in that era - the same thing has happened for the American wild west. There have been countless eyewitness accounts of blacks in WWII posted on this site - and all present blacks as either pathetic, laughable or troublesome in war.
Posted by HideouslyWhite at 7:58 PM on September 30
Black soldiers raped Italian women just like Emmet Till’s father did like father like son both killed for the same crime.
Posted by at 7:59 PM on September 30
Good for the Italians….spike lee is an insult to the human race anyhow!
Posted by at 8:38 PM on September 30
If the little racist dwarf, Spike Lee, made this movie, then I’m betting that it’s based on a wealth of nonsense amd upwards of a thousand lies.
I wouldn’t be surprised if it turned out that blacks were never in Italy.
Posted by ice at 8:58 PM on September 30
Spike Lee was also unrepentant, saying: “I am not apologising for anything.” He told Italians that there was clearly “a lot about your history you have yet to come to grips with
That is an absolutely hilarious statement coming from someone like Spike Lee.
Posted by at 9:10 PM on September 30
Spike Lee should be directing cartoons; this would be a medium where he could express his frenzied half-witted imagination.
Miracle at St. Anna, which highlights the role of African-American soldiers in the war, suggests that anti-Fascist partisans indirectly caused the atrocity by first taking refuge in the village and then abandoning the villagers to their fate.
That’s rich, the role of Black American soldiers in the war, this is a startling revelation just think that the allies would never have won the Italian campaign with out these brave Black hero’s.
At a press screening in Rome, James McBride, the black American Second World War veteran who wrote the novel on which Mr Lee’s film is based, said: “I am very sorry if I have offended the partisans. I have enormous respect for them. As a black American, I understand what it’s like for someone to tell your history, and they are not you.
He added: “But unfortunately, the history of World War II here in Italy is ours as well, and this was the best I could do … it is after all a work of fiction, not a history book.”
No, a work of mischief. How could the history of World War II in Italy be yours when you just stated it was a work of fiction?
Spike Lee was also unrepentant, saying: “I am not apologizing for anything.” He told Italians that there was clearly “a lot about your history you have yet to come to grips with … this film is our interpretation, and I stand behind it.”
This shows the ignorance of this Black imbecile telling these people there own history, in addition to creating myths about the big brave Black soldiers in Italy, then states its his interpretation.
Posted by Ralph Cramden at 9:14 PM on September 30
I saw the preview for this a couple months back. It included a clip of an attractive Italian woman in a passionate kiss with a black soldier. I just thought to myself, “Good grief! Now they think they won WWII?” I can understand why blacks don’t want whites telling their history because the facts don’t match up with the media fantasy they have of themselves.
Posted by Civilized Neighbor at 9:15 PM on September 30
Of course, if Lil’ Spike Lee had made the film Letters from Iwo Jima, all the Japanese on the island would have been wiped out in the first half hour by a single squad of “African American” GIs. The rest of the movie would be about how black physicists built the atomic bomb.
Posted by Erik at 9:16 PM on September 30
So here we finally have the limit of absurdity; a film which depicts a novel, i.e. a fictional account of black heorism in Italy during WWII, which trumps the real historical account precisely because it glorifies blacks at the expense of _______(fill in the blank), in this particular case, Italian resistance fighters.
The Italians at least have the will to stand up to this cheap falsification of their history with the express purpose of glorifying American blacks, who in the real history of WWII played no significant role in any conceivable way. White Americans by way of contrast are so habituated to being portrayed as inferior in every possible respect in order to paint a totally false, but idealized, heroic role for their black countrymen and women that they do not even notice any longer.
“Spike Lee was also unrepentant, saying: “I am not apologising for anything.” He told Italians that there was clearly “a lot about your history you have yet to come to grips with … This film is our interpretation, and I stand behind it.”” This truly is the pot calling the kettle black(sorry for the pun). There is a very good deal of actual historical truth concerning Mr. Lee’s ancestors which he will never “come to grips with” and it is not, as in the case of the Italians here, fictional. The real historical record of blacks in America and just about anywhere else is one of a primative people, some of whom were fortunate enough to be raised out of their natural condition by whites, who continue to demonstrate not only a total lack of appropriate gratitude, but actually make their good fortune into the eternal chains of their own victimhood. Apparently it must feel good to always play the role of victim, what will all of the government subsidies, media free passes, and preferential treatment, it must be absolutely irrestible. It has nothing to do with truth in any form, however.
Posted by at 9:24 PM on September 30
Spike Lee is an insult to the human race, anyway. Now what in Hell would a black activist (terrorist) know about world war 2? Much less any history considering his has made such a mess of his own.
Posted by at 9:46 PM on September 30
I guess Spike Lee is trying to give his buddy Spielberg a run for his money in the fantasy film genre. Both are equally adept at putting down whites anyway.
Posted by Xenophon at 9:51 PM on September 30
The Richard Burton Film that Mr. Tim McHugh is seeking to know was “Massacre in Rome” (1973) where Burton played SS. Officer Lt. Col. Herbert Kappler. Marcello Mastroianni played the priest.
Posted by john drake at 9:52 PM on September 30
A few years ago I spoke with several veterans of the 95th Infantry Division who told me an interesting story about General Patton during the war. Shortly after being deployed to France all the drivers in the 95th Division were diverted for a week or two to driving resupply missions for the Third Army. The advance out of Normandy had been crippled by lack of vital supplies to the front line divisions.
General Patton had found out that a number of blacks had been selling supplies to the French black marketeers and he didn’t want them to drive his supplies anymore. Whole convoys of all black truck transporters would pull off the supply routes and meet the French gangsters where they would have big all night drunken parties drinking liquor and using white French whores in exchange for the supplies. Lack of supplies slowed the Allied advance after the initial breakout from the Normandy beachhead and allowed the retreating Germans the time to recover from the shock of the D-day invasion and reorganize the defense. It is fair to say that shortage of supplies during this time period prevented the Allies from crossing the Rhine in 1944 and allowed the war to drag on till spring of 1945.
The veterans I spoke with swore that it was true but that you would never read about it any written account of the war. These men will all be dead in another decade but I for one will never forget what they told me. In some ways I can’t completely blame the WWII blacks for not wanting to fight for a country that allowed the Jim Crow laws and I have no doubt that many served honorably. That doesn’t erase the fact that some did not and that they betrayed our country at the time of its greatest need. Maybe Spike Lee could make a movie out of these incidents that have been wiped clean out of the historical record.
Posted by Enough at 10:30 PM on September 30
Have you noticed that when a regular movie is a bomb it goes to DVD almost instantly? This Spike Lee movie is a turkey that’s been advertised 24/7 on the networks and cable for two weeks now. Like “Meet Dave” or whatever that Eddie Murphy movie bomb was called, “Miracle at St Anna” will linger at the box office for weeks before being retired.
Posted by at 10:44 PM on September 30
I assumed the ‘Miracle’ would show the NOLA levees re-forming after de gummint done ‘sploded dem under cover of Katrina. Seriously, I’m filming a documentary showing that Uncle Sam would never have blown up the levees, because the lab whipping up the AIDS virus for dispersal in the black c’moonity was located in the Ninth ward…
Posted by Ken/Seattle at 11:26 PM on September 30
About a decade ago, a book received much publicity, about Black American soldiers liberating Auschwitz or another concentration camp. It proved the wondrous aspect of the Black-Jewish alliance. Well, it turned out the camp was not liberated by Black soldiers; the book’s main point was not true. “But it meant well.”
Like so much of modern, politically-correct history, the purpose is to “mean well” to favored groups, while truth, like America, is to be damned.————-HM
Posted by at 11:43 PM on September 30
Don’t all of you know, blacks saved us against the nazis. If it were not for blacks, WW2 would have been lost, don’t you know that.LOL
Posted by at 11:51 PM on September 30
I noticed that. The whites that lee picks on the most are the Italians. Why is that? Anyone knows?
Posted by flyingtiger at 12:02 AM on October 1
He probably hates Italians in particular because they’re
Whites who often stand up for themselves. In other words, not
pathetic dorks like most Whites. The Whiter, the Blonder, the
more likely to be an emotional weakling or a racial fool. I’ve
seen or first hand. If my Nordic self and an Italian guy are wal-
king past a Black street hustler, he’ll go for me everytime. Such
are the insticts of a predator. What happened to us?
Posted by Eric the Red at 12:04 AM on October 1
There is no mention of the 92nd or black buffalo soldiers in the official history of this massacre. There is nothing whatsoever in the museum or subsequent trial documents (of ss officers) to support even the slightest hint of any black african involvement. Perhaps over six decades of faded memory and the location of a remote italian village persuaded lee that no one, except his fellow blacks, would notice his insulting attempt to convert this slaughter into a total self-promoting lie. If I was an Italian American I would be very miffed indeed to the extent of boycotting the film and encouraging others to do the same.
Posted by Yorkshireman at 12:58 AM on October 1
Why any white person would go and see a movie of Spike Lees, is beyond my ken. I can only theorize it has something to do with the general masochistic bent of the collective white Zeitgeist.
I think the 3mill is probably more likely Spikes “Posse” watching the movie numerous times. The good news is that at least this piece of garbage is not even near the top movie charts and probably will limit his access to movie-making capital for the foreseeable future, and he can go back to making “college level” tributes to his limitless hubris.
BTW, I read Pattons autobiographical description of blacks in combat as being overly emotional and “not fit for the fast thinking of tank combat”.
Posted by openyoureyes at 1:11 AM on October 1
“Spike Lee was also unrepentant, saying: “I am not apologising for anything.” He told Italians that there was clearly “a lot about your history you have yet to come to grips with … This film is our interpretation, and I stand behind it.”
If only “our” White leaders had this kind of gumption when discussing our history!
Posted by P Norman at 1:13 AM on October 1
What if Spike Lee were to make an animal movie like “Free Willy”, in which it is a black kid who befriends the animal?
I am sure none of the villains who wanted to cage or kill the animal would be black, and that all of the villains in such a movie would be white.
I do not intend on seeing “Miracle at St. Anna.” But I would trust the Italians more for historical accuracy on on Italy during the WW11 Nazi occupation than Spike Lee. As far as I know, black soldiers were on the sidelines of WW11 and were rarely, if ever, in combat.
The idea of showing a partisan, Roldolfo, collaborating with the Nazis, and then blaming the massacre on the partisans, makes me understand why the Italian people would be upset by this movie. The Italians, as supposed allies of the Germans during WW11, were a liability to Hitler’s war effort.
There is a much better movie about Italians during WW11 that is a lot closer to historical accuracy and quite excellent. That movie I recommend everyone this reading post rent on DVD, if you did not see it in a movie theatre, is “Captain Correlli’s Mandolyn.” starring Nicholas Cage.
Posted by Ross at 2:01 AM on October 1
Blacks are infamous for re-writting history. They like to potray themselves and conquering hero’s, nobelity, royalty, and trail blazers in history, even if it means changing historical figures in history, from White, Asian or Middle Eastern to Black. It is no surprise that Spike Lee would be of the same Afrocentric mindset.
He once complained that Cleopatra should have been potrayed by a Black woman instead of a White woman like Elizabeth Taylor. Even though it is well known that she was Greek.
And Lee also has a strange fixation with Italians. In Do the right thing, he had a scene where his character tells the owner of a pizza parlor, that his curly hair reveals his African ancestry, suggesting that most Italians are part black. And in Jungle fever, the white woman he used to potray race mixing female was an Italian woman. Now this!
This movie has already received terrible reviews, not just for it’s inacuracy, but for being terribly slow, overlong, and disjointed. He probably knew he had to draw as much attention to the film as possible, which is why he attacked. Clint Eastwoods film not long ago. I can’t stand the guy, his ego is so enormous, he threatend to sue Spike TV. He is nothing but a loud mouthed, untalented weasle.
Posted by at 2:56 AM on October 1
“He probably hates Italians in particular because they’re
Whites who often stand up for themselves. In other words, not
pathetic dorks like most Whites.”
This is likely true. Italian-americans I’ve noticed, have a sense of ethnic pride and are a lot tougher than other whites.
Posted by at 3:43 AM on October 1
Lee’s “story” (As in, Daddy, tell me a story) of black combat involvement in WW II is pure fantasy.
Blacks were not employed in combat roles in any capacity in any service or theater in WW II, excepting the Tuskegee experiment. They were used strictly for support functions, in which they performed about as well as blacks typically perform in all endeavors.
Their first broad exposure to combat in the 20th Century was during the Korean conflict, specifically in the infamous 24th Infantry Regiment of the 25th Division. Their performance was so disgraceful (they quickly became known as the Bug-Out Deuce-Four) that blacks were integrated into white line units for the duration. Predictably, a congressional investigation “found” that discrimination was clearly the reason for their embarrassing performance in combat.
During the Vietnam conflict blacks made up roughly 12-13% of line company strength in the Army but accounted for a clear majority of the disciplinary problems. There is no question that the effectiveness of line units would have been improved without their participation.
Ironically, in today’s all-volunteer Army, in which enlistees are guaranteed their preferred MOS (military occupational specialty) blacks once again have reverted overwhelming to support roles. The combat troops are once again nearly all white or Hispanic, though press photographers spend a lot of time hunting frantically for blacks in full combat gear to spotlight their presence in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Posted by john at 7:44 AM on October 1
My late mother-in-law was a native of Palau and spent her entire life on the island of Peleliu, scene of an intense WWII battle (Sept-Nov 1944). When the war ended, a half-dozen U.S. Army and Navy units, including a unit of black supply troops, remained garrisoned on Peleliu until 1951. My mother-in-law used to tell the story of how, circa 1946-47, her and her cousin, both married, in their mid-20s, and both very light-complexioned, were harvesting taro plants on a family farm in a remote part of the island when two black soldiers in a jeep drove up, parked, and came over to them. Neither of the girls spoke English, but using hand signals the blacks indicated they wanted to have sex right there in the field. The two girls waved them off and tried to run away when the black soldiers grabbed them, threw them to the ground, and began trying to remove their clothes. Fortunately, several native boys from the village were clearing a nearby field and heard the girls’ screams. When the boys appeared on the scene wielding machetes, the two would-be black rapists ran for their jeep and sped off. The incident was reported to the U.S. Navy commander on the island and a criminal inquiry began. Sadly, my mother-in-law and her cousin could not identify the two culprits in a line-up of black soldiers and the case was closed. However, the island chiefs then issued a decree that island women were forbidden from having any contact with black soldiers. I used to tell my wife, it’s a darn good thing the NAACP didn’t show up on the island to demand the black soldiers’ “right” to have sex with the native women.
Posted by Francis at 8:06 AM on October 1
“It is almost always the Italians whom he insults. It about time someone noticed.” Tony Soprano
I’ve noticed Tony. I can’t say that Spike Lee thinks much of whites in general, but he positively hates, as well as envies Italian Americans. Many of his movies (Jungle Fever, Do the Right Thing, Miracle at Saint Anna) depict Italian Americans or Italians as violent, hateful bigots. Of course, the Italian women are another matter—see Jungle Fever and Miracle at Saint Anna. I think Mr. Lee has a nerve criticizing Clint Eastwood for historical inaccuracies (lack of blacks fighting on Iwo Jima) and then put forward this mess of a movie.
Posted by Sardonicus at 8:06 AM on October 1
“He told Italians that there was clearly “a lot about your history you have yet to come to grips with…”“
Well, Italians have a lot of history - mountains of it. It’s richer and more distinguished than anything this little twerp could ever appreciate.
Posted by Iain, London at 8:37 AM on October 1
Anybody remember another black lie about black troops in Italy? The “60 Minutes” piece a decade ago in which Ed Bradley made hay out of the fact that Pope Pius XII (Eugenio Pacelli) supposedly pleaded with General Eisenhower not to garrison African-American soldiers at the Vatican because of reports these troops had committed rapes elsewhere. Well, turns out the Pope was not referring to African-American soldiers at all; he was referring to French-Algerian troops who had committed rape and pillage in other places. In translation, however, “French-Algerian troops” became “colored troops,” thus the confusion. “60 Minutes,” to my knowledge, never issued a correction to this lie.
Posted by Francis at 8:42 AM on October 1
“But unfortunately, the history of World War II here in Italy is ours as well, and this was the best I could do … it is after all a work of fiction, not a history book.”
The made up history is yours, the real history is not. Just
like the other fraudulent histories Blacks believe- “We
had a technologically advanced society and culture until
Whites showed up”, “We built America”, “The Egyptians were
Black”, “White people were created by the evil scientist
Yakub”, “We invented everything from toilets to laser cataract surgery, etc”.
“it is after all a work of fiction, not a history book.”
What Black history isn’t fiction being taught as fact ?
“Mr Lee said that he had made it to counteract war films such as Clint Eastwood’s Letters From Iwo Jima and Flags of Our Fathers, in which black US troops hardly figured.”
Because unlike you Spike, Mr.Eastwood wants to make movies
that are historically accurate. Not to stroke the fragile
ego of the Black race.
Posted by Dr. Caligari at 8:53 AM on October 1
Spike Lee lecturing the Italians on history—what could be more ridiculous or more typical of 21st century cultural degeneracy?
Posted by Cassiodorus at 10:32 AM on October 1
He made the film to counter Clint Eastwoods “Flags of Our Fathers” and “Letters from Iwo Jima” because there was almost no mention of black soldiers that fought. Well maybe that’s because they WEREN’T THERE. So what was Mr. Eastwood to do, take a non-fiction account and just to make Spike Lee happy, stick a couple of black soldiers in the mix. That would be like telling Mel Gibson he should have included some minorities in his Braveheart movie.
Posted by Gayle Sollenberger at 12:08 PM on October 1
The French have a saying that is applicable to all of Mr. Lee’s propoganda. “The first casualty in any war is the truth”.
Posted by SCV at 12:48 PM on October 1
“…turns out the Pope was not referring to African-American soldiers at all; he was referring to French-Algerian troops who had committed rape and pillage in other places. In translation, however, “French-Algerian troops” became “colored troops,” thus the confusion.”
Posted by Francis at 8:42 AM on October 1
Speaking of WWII movies, the 1961 movie “Two Women” has Sophia Loren as an Italian mother in the dying days of the war. Sophia and her adolescent daughter are both gang-raped by Moroccan (“French”) troops who’d been recruited to fight on the side of the Allies.
Not that US black troops aren’t equally capable of such atrocities, but it’s worth remembering that OTHER dark-skinned ethnicities besides just Africans also welcome the opportunity to inflict a little racial retribution on white women through the concept of the “revenge rape.”
Posted by at 12:53 PM on October 1
Here’s something else;
During WW1, the French Used Algerian and sub-Sharan Blacks on the front line in places. In one incident, an entire company of Blacks fled the front the instant shelling began. They retreated to the rear, found the hospitals and raped all the French nurses. This scenario was repeated during the general strike where nearly all French troops refused to continue frontal assault orders.
This is recorded in the book, The First World War - by Martin Gilbert.
Posted by Whiteplight at 1:03 PM on October 1
If it was a spike lee movie it had to insult someone.It is almost always the Italians whom he insults.It about time someone noticed. Anyone ever see Do the Right Thing,Jungle Fever or New Jack City. You will know what I am talking about.
Posted by Tony Soprano. at 6:48 PM on September 30
It is true that Italians are extremely hated in the Afro community. Perhaps we see through their nonsense more than others. Rudy Giuliani is absolutely hated by blacks (I’m no huge fan of his although he did clean up NYC after the disgrace of the Dinkins Administration) and I sense an anti-Italian bias in there. Italians in general are OK to disrespect among all Liberals not just Afros. Italians are the rednecks of the Northeast to liberals who are otherwise pathetically obsequious to any and all people of color.
I’m glad another poster mentioned Emmett Till’s father and the crimes he committed. Where I work I believe Afros are sending around an email which contains pictures of dead Till and segregated water fountains to rile each other up to vote for Obamalama or else the clock will turn back under the watch of the evil Palin/McCain. I haven’t seen it, I wasn’t priviliged enough to receive a copy but I caught a glimpse of a coworker looking at it and subsequent discussions- a discussion which included support for the Dallas Maverick who dissed the anthem. When will we wake up to the fact that a significant segment of Black America has declared war on White America?
Posted by S & GS at 1:08 PM on October 1
Details on aspiring rapist Emmmit Till from Wikipedia:
In 1955, Till and his cousin were sent to stay for the summer with Till’s uncle, Moses Wright,[10] who lived in Money, Mississippi (another small town in the Delta, eight miles north of Greenwood).
Before his departure for the Delta, Till’s mother cautioned him to “mind his manners” with white people.
Till’s mother understood that race relations in Mississippi were very different from those in Chicago. Mississippi had seen many lynchings during the South’s lynching era (ca. 1876-1930), and these racially motivated murders were still not unfamiliar, especially in the Delta region where Till was going to be staying. Racial tensions were also on the rise after the United States Supreme Court’s 1954 decision in Brown v. Board of Education to end segregation in public education.
Till arrived on August 21, 1955 . On August 24, he joined other young teenagers as they went to Bryant’s Grocery and Meat Market to get some candy and soda. The teens were children of sharecroppers and had been picking cotton all day. The market was owned by a white husband and wife, Roy Bryant and Carolyn Bryant, and mostly catered to the local sharecropper population.
Till’s cousin and several black youths, all under 16, were with Till in the store. The facts of what transpired in the store are still disputed, but according to several versions, Till was dared by one of the other boys to flirt with the 21-year-old Mrs. Bryant.[11][12] Some accounts say Till wolf whistled at Bryant; others say he grabbed her hand and asked her for a date; still others say all he did was say, “Bye, baby” as he left the store.[12][13] One of the other boys ran outside to tell Till’s cousin (who was outside playing checkers with an old man across the street) what happened. When the old man heard what happened, he urged the boys to leave quickly, fearing violence.
Bryant’s Store in Money, Mississippi. This picture was taken in 2005Carolyn Bryant told others of the events at the store, and the story spread quickly. When Bryant’s husband returned from a road trip a few days later and was told about it, he was greatly angered. By that point, it seemed that everyone in Tallahatchie County had heard about the incident, which had several days to percolate. Different versions were disseminated. Till’s cousin, Wheeler Parker, Jr., who was with him at the store, claims Till did nothing but whistle at the woman. “He loved pranks, he loved fun, he loved jokes… in Mississippi, people didn’t think the same jokes were funny.” Carolyn Bryant later asserted that Till had grabbed her at the waist and asked her for a date. She said the young man also used “unprintable” words. He had a slight stutter and some have conjectured that Carolyn might have misinterpreted what Till said. Roy Bryant decided that he and his half-brother, J.W. Milam, 36, would meet at 3:00 a.m. on Sunday to “teach the boy a lesson.”
(I think we all know what transpired in that store on that day… Till obviously physically groped the man’s wife and propositioned her with vile and suggestive remarks, so here’s what predictably transpired:)
Following the trial, Look Magazine paid J.W. Milam and Roy Bryant $4,000 to tell their story. Safe from any further charges for their crime due to double jeopardy protection, Bryant admitted to journalist William Bradford Huie that he and his brother had killed Till. Milam claimed that initially their intention was to scare Till into line by pistol-whipping him and threatening to throw him off a cliff. Milam explained that contrary to expectations, regardless of what they did to Till, he never showed any fear, never seemed to believe they would really kill him, and maintained a defiant attitude towards them concerning his actions. Thus the brothers said they felt they were left with no choice but to fully make an example of Till, and they killed him.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmett_Till
Till wouldn’t even apologize or show remorse, and so they felt they had no choice but to follow through with their threats.
Yet Till is lionized by blacks in America? Pathetic.
Posted by Awakening Citizen at 1:16 PM on October 1
We have to find some Italian American to call out Spike Lee for a one on one, fight, boxing match, UFC style cage match to stop these attacks on the honor of Italian Americans, White Italians. Spike Lee has been doing this for 20 years now. Blacks don’t all insult to their people in the TV/Movies,even innocent stuff like Amos and Andy brings huge pressure to “end it”.
Since Spike Lee is all over 5 ft 2 and not very strong or physical, it wouldn’t be fair for some Italian American man to fight him, so how about some Italian American female of the same weight?
I am sure lots of people who pay to see Spike Lee get his arse beat by a tough, little Italian American gal fighting for the honor of her people. I sure would pay to see this.
We can announce the fight and of course, Spike Lee will chicken out or try to show of with a crew of Black thugs.
We need to get much, much better at defending our honor in a physical way, learn to have some controlled violence besides guns, 2nd Amendment stuff. Anti White punks like Spike Lee need to be confronted and made to flee, back down. Or they should be publicly abused, garbage thrown at them.
Since Spike Lee’s latest hate White historical movie is earning horrible reviews on the rotten tomato web site, perhaps some White folks, especially White Italian Americans can find some real rotten tomatoes to throw at the pathetic, small hate Whitey punk Spike Lee.
Posted by JR at 1:33 PM on October 1
The theme of this movie is simply this;
White women being portrayed having sex with black men.
This has now become the only theme that exists in movies made today…..and the entire media system for that matter.
Posted by mick at 1:50 PM on October 1
Spike should make a movie about what happened on December 26, 1944. An Italian division of Mussolini’s Italian Social Republica, supported by 3 German batallions attacked the 92nd Infantry Division. The black troops of the 92nd fled in retreat. In February 1945, another Italian division allied with the Germans struck the 92nd Division and the same thing happened.
See the Wikipedia article on the 92nd Infantry Division.
Posted by Neil at 2:26 PM on October 1
Spike Lee is one of the most racist people in hollywood. He is the one that said that he looks daggers at mixed race couples. If Tom Hanks or any other White actor had said something like that he would never work as an actor again.
Posted by Spartan24 at 3:05 PM on October 1
“Ironically, in today’s all-volunteer Army, in which enlistees are guaranteed their preferred MOS (military occupational specialty) blacks once again have reverted overwhelming to support roles. The combat troops are once again nearly all white or Hispanic, though press photographers spend a lot of time hunting frantically for blacks in full combat gear to spotlight their presence in Iraq and Afghanistan.”
Posted by john at 7:44 AM on October 1
Excellent post, John.
I just might add that black leadership complained so often and so loudly, lying that blacks over represented combat deaths because they were pushed into line companies during the Vietnam conflict, those in Congress, the Pentagon, the Clinton and Bush administrations, promoted policies that required that blacks be given support and leadership roles, even though they weren’t qualified for them, just as they insisted they have homes they couldnt pay for. Many stories abound about the extra effort required of instructors to qualify these people, with one stating it was the most difficult teaching assignment in his life.
Blacks pushed into technological roles and leadership roles they’re not qualified for, is right in line with giving them sub-prime mortgages in spite of the fact it was apparent they couldn’t pay for them. And like the sub-prime financial collapse, we will see a military disaster that could completely ruin the US as a military super power the first time we encounter a determined adversary that is on a higher level than those we have been overwhelming to date, which could be North Korea or Iran, as just two examples. Neither could defeat us militarily, but they’re well-equipped enough to REQUIRE that our personnel be of the highest caliber in order prevent isolated military disasters.
Blacks made us a second-rate economic power, because of their insistence on being given homes. Our lending institutions collapsed, never to recover to their fullest strength again. Likewise, they will be be responsible for our military being degraded to a second-rate military power, because of their insistence on being awarded military positions they’re not qualified for. That’s no exaggeration.
When the latter occurs, blacks will have effectively caused the defeat of the US without firing a single shot, simply because of their incessant whining. And it will all be due to the push by white radicals and do-gooders to cater to these people any and every way they can.
The situation will degenerate to a point where it will be up to our white rank and file, as usual, to save what will be left of our country, since the self-appointed elitist will refuse to act even in self defense, and as in centuries past, I believe they’ll eventually rise to the occassion, but, unfortunately, not until the country is embroiled in much civil upheaval. They will be forced to form their white militias once again in defense of the attacks against them, as Tom Chittum describes in his book, Civil War II, which a Google search indicates can be found at two web sites: http://www.amfirstbooks.com/
www.resist.com/CWII.pdf
Posted by Ranger at 3:15 PM on October 1
flyingtiger at 12:02 AM on October 1 wrote:
“The whites that lee picks on the most are the Italians. Why is that? Anyone knows?”
I think I found the answer. I found this on a biographical website about Shelton Jackson “Spike” Lee:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spike_Lee
“Lee was born in Atlanta, Georgia, the son of Jacqueline Shelton, a teacher of arts and black literature, and William James Edward Lee III, a jazz musician, and composer.[1] Lee moved with his family to Brooklyn, New York when he was a small child…In Brooklyn, he attended John Dewey High School.”
John Dewey High School is located in the tail end of Bensonhurst, a predominantly Italian-American area of Brooklyn. When “Spike” Lee was younger, it was overwhelmingly Italian-American. I know, because I’m around “Spike’s” age and was born and raised in New York City.
I grew up in Queens, but spent a lot of my youth “hanging out” in Brooklyn. I can tell you: most Italians did NOT like “dey bruthas and dey sistuhs” and weren’t afraid to let them know this fact. Poor Spikey must’ve gotten his widdle feelings hurt and now he’s getting his paybacks with his celluloid trash.
I really don’t care. John Gay was right: “Envy is a kind of praise.”
Posted by at 3:42 PM on October 1
Miracle at St. Anna is appropriately named in this case of black soldiers in combat. Hard to believe, would need credible witnesses, and just not bloody likely.
Posted by at 3:54 PM on October 1
@Jason Denato,
You, Sir, are absolutely right - at least judging from the overarching Black-White discord I’ve seen in my lifetime. Unfortunately I don’t see seperation happening without a catastrophic economic collapse to occasion the need for radical change in peoples minds.
Posted by at 5:08 PM on October 1
Spike Lee is using an old, old trick to build box office. He’s purposely using controversy and insults to create a stir and thus build box office. He’s getting attention judging by the stir that he’s creating on AR.
The best weapon that anyone can use against Lee is to make sure that you don’t go see his movie. Whatever you do, don’t go see the movie. Then it will die in obscurity - the fate it deserves.
Posted by at 5:16 PM on October 1
Spike Lee an ” ebonics ” name meaning guano.
Posted by Michigan Patrriot at 5:19 PM on October 1
Vote with your wallets. Don’t see the movie.
Posted by at 5:49 PM on October 1
Historically, blacks make horrible combat troops. Someone earlier referenced the 24th Reg./25th div. Blacks have the violent nature to fight — for example, the savage tribal warfare they conduct. However, they dont’ have the intelligence or discipline to work in coordinated units.
Colin Powell is an anomaly, but even he only saw limited combat in Vietnam.
George Manuelian
Atherton, CA
Posted by George Manuelian at 6:30 PM on October 1
Thank you Enough@10:30
This is a bit of truth to what is really a fictional movie.
Seems that in fiction one can say and be whatever one likes.
Provided that the reader remembers that it is fiction or
in other words not real or true. Also I thought Till’s dad
raped and killed a french woman. And that ol’ Emmit actually
attacked the girl not whistled. I wish there was still lynchings.
Got to love those bygone days.
Thanks
Posted by at 8:02 PM on October 1
Hmm…the author himself calls the Italian’s story “the accepted Italian version of events” and “one of the founding MYTHS of Italy’s postwar democracy,” thus granting Lee’s version more validity.
Did anyone consult any aging rock stars? They probably know exactly what happened. They know everything.
Posted by notawn at 8:24 PM on October 1
It is true that Italians are extremely hated in the Afro community. Perhaps we see through their nonsense more than others. Rudy Giuliani is absolutely hated by blacks (I’m no huge fan of his although he did clean up NYC after the disgrace of the Dinkins Administration) and I sense an anti-Italian bias in there. Italians in general are OK to disrespect among all Liberals not just Afros. Italians are the rednecks of the Northeast to liberals who are otherwise pathetically obsequious to any and all people of color.
—————————————————————————————-
While I have definitely picked up on blacks strong resentment towards Italians, I have also detected a tinge of envy. A good deal of them also try and say Italians aren’t really white, and many of them like to claim they have black ancestry. In fact, the vast majority of Blacks truly believe that Sicilians are of Black ancestry, due to the Moors. Forget the fact that Moors themselves weren’t even Black. These ridiculous beliefs are held by most of them. And you can argue with them until you’re blue in the face, but to no avail, they have no interest in facts, and are more interested in their self created myths, and fairytales. The same reason that Spike Lee does not concern himself with minor details like accuracy when telling his fictionalized version of Black troops during WWII. All the while insisting it is factual. For most of them, myths are just as valid as facts, and revisionism is a chance to paint themselves in the glorified light they so deeply desire. And for them, this is their own way of declaring war on whites.
Posted by at 8:58 PM on October 1
I remember that there was a local historical fiction book written by someone local, circulating around in Slovenia in 1999 that depiected Slovenian children assisting a downed Black American fighter pilot.
Posted by Whiteplight
Were there black American fighter pilots? I guess it was “historical fiction”.
Posted by at 11:34 PM on October 1
” Mr Lee said that he had made it to counteract war films such as Clint Eastwood’s Letters From Iwo Jima and Flags of Our Fathers, in which black US troops hardly figured.”
The twisted psyche and entitlement victicrat mentality at work here…..the movies of this guy have been hyped up. As a great movie lover with a background in the arts I see his work as typical symbolism over substance. I was an extra in Jungle Fever and experienced the arrogance of this spoiled brat and his posse. When I read that he was a professor teaching at NYU I could not help myself but feel sorry for the students who take his class.
Posted by Lisette at 11:41 PM on October 1
” Mr Lee said that he had made it to counteract war films such as Clint Eastwood’s Letters From Iwo Jima and Flags of Our Fathers, in which black US troops hardly figured.”
The twisted psyche and entitlement victicrat mentality at work here…..the movies of this guy have been hyped up. As a great movie lover with a background in the arts I see his work as typical symbolism over substance. I was an extra in Jungle Fever and experienced the arrogance of this spoiled brat and his posse. When I read that he was a professor teaching at NYU I could not help myself but feel sorry for the students who take his class.
Posted by Lisette at 11:41 PM on October 1
Here we are talking about white war two where white people used terrible weapons to kill mostly other white people and you wonder why white people are only 9% of the worlds population. You even mention that whites kept blacks out of combat which preserved their lives. Don,t forget white war one where white people did a good job of killing each other. American civil war, europes history being mostly wars where white people killing each other. Even during the bubonic plague where 25% of europe died white people spent time killing each other off. What happened to white people? Look at history we sent our best in battle to kill each other and destroyed the gene pool. White people killing each other is what we do best. When we are not in war whites become lawyers and lawmakers to help hurt and destroy other whites. White elites painted the target on their working class whites so they are the only ones that can be targeted to be humiliated and taxed to death. As far as Italians, yes they are tough but what did they do but form gangs and kill a lot of other tough Italians. Long opinion don,t know if it will get posted but after reading this i was about to burst.
Posted by at 1:19 AM on October 2
Eric the Red must not be Irish. Seriously, blacks avoided us more than any other whites when I lived in Detroit. Ask them. They know why. Same for the Mexicans when I moved to L.A. Most whites in the US are in fact brainwashed chickens. I can tell you that today the dark folks avoid Russians, the recent immigrants, blonde or not, these days. They’re scared of them here in L.A. Because they act like men. Too bad so few Europeans are allowed to immigrate here.
Posted by In Mexifornia at 1:24 AM on October 2
Coincidentally, the day I saw this article, Oct. 1, the current issue of the _Journal of Military History_ arrived with back-to-back reviews of two books: _Taken by Force: Race and American GIs in Europe during WWII_ and _Recasting Race after WW II: Germans and African Americans in American-Occupied Germany_. The first book, according to the reviewer, claims that “a disproportionate number of black GIs were prosecuted” for rape, but doesn’t say disproportionate in regard to what set of numbers. The Black crime rate or rate of rape convictions in the US? I doubt it. Of course Black crime is blamed on a “rigidly segregated army” and “a pervasive, rabid, and institutionalized racism.”
The second book, according to the reviewer, “sets out to historicize whiteness in occupied Germany, insisting that racism must be understood as a culturally constructed code of conduct,” etc., etc. Beneath the jargon, we learn that Blacks didn’t like the “harsh treatment” (VD exams) of German women involved in inter-racial relationships. This is after we’ve been told that “German women’s desperate need for food…all but erased the boundary between prostitution and ‘legitimate’ love affairs.” Anyway, it would be interesting to read between the lines in these two no doubt fervently PC books.
I’m glad someone mentioned “Two Women” w/ Sophia Loren, a great movie. I thought the gang-rape in the church was by Black GIs, but “12:53 PM” is right, it’s Moroccan Goumbiers. In any case, nothing like this could be shown today.
One more thing. I’m sure Spike Lee’s African-Americans are fantasies, but the truth is that members of the Italian Resistance, particularly Communist cells, sometimes staged stupid, unnecessary attacks, for which villagers suffered while they escaped into the woods.
Posted by Empiric at 4:17 AM on October 2
The other day, while on another website someone, (obviously black) posted an article where it was supposedly discovered one of the victims of the Titanic was a Black Haitian engineer, who was to have been married to a white French woman. The poster then started complaining about a historical cover-up! Because that one black man was never included in stories recounting the Titanic disaster, he blamed it on white racists not caring about blacks. Incredibly, more blacks joined in to complain that there was not one black person shown in the movie version of the Titanic. Then went on ranting, about how often blacks are excluded from history books, and films. Hundreds of Whites perished, but because there might have been one black man to perish as well, the black mans named should have been known to all. One even went so far as to claim the Titanic was built by thousands of blacks, rather than Irish laborers. I could almost see Spike Lee thinking YES, That’s it! Time to make a historically accurate version of the Titanic. One which would surely include black hero’s and plenty of interracial love scenes.
Posted by at 9:05 AM on October 2
“In fact, the vast majority of Blacks truly believe that Sicilians are of Black ancestry, due to the Moors.”
This is insulting as well as historically inaccurate. Sicily was also occupied by the Greeks for many, many centuries, then by the German Vandals, the Arabs and the Normans. Historically, and from personal experience with Sicilians, I would say the Greek influence is by far the strongest. Some of the women resemble a certain Greek type from ancient times and are very pretty.
Posted by Sardonicus at 10:32 AM on October 2
“At a press screening in Rome, James McBride, the black American Second World War veteran who wrote the novel on which Mr Lee’s film is based”
McBride is not a Veteran of WW2 or any other war. He was born in 1957.
Posted by at 2:21 PM on October 2
quote: Spike Lee was also unrepentant, saying: “I am not apologising for anything.”
That pretty much sums up the Black mentality vs. Whitey.
Posted by at 5:10 PM on October 2
When is somebody going to make a movie about black retreats and cowardice when confronted with Chinese troops in Korea?
It would be a big money maker for someone, especially if other numerous incidents of black incompetence and cowardice were included. There are numerous incidents.
If rapes and other crimes are included, the length of the movie will be an all day event.
Posted by q at 7:59 PM on October 2
This is insulting as well as historically inaccurate. Sicily was also occupied by the Greeks for many, many centuries, then by the German Vandals, the Arabs and the Normans. Historically, and from personal experience with Sicilians, I would say the Greek influence is by far the strongest. Some of the women resemble a certain Greek type from ancient times and are very pretty.
————————————————————————————————
Agreed! It’s extremely insulting, but many not only claim Sicilian and Italian history as being part part black, but most Mediteranean countries as well, including Greece, Spain, and France. Which is why they only like to call Northern Europeans white, It’s downright laughable, but I have seen many Blacks them say, you whites were still in caves when we were building cities, coliseums, and teaching philosophy and mathmatics. They not only like to think they built the pyramids, but Rome as well. All thanks to their black Moorish influence. It really is pretty funny. But ironically, even though they are perfectly comfortable with claiming they shaped Mediterrean culture. Show them a picture of a very tribal looking SubSahran African in loin cloths and tribal paint, or wearing lip plates, and they get extremely offended. In reality most Afrocentric minded American blacks completely reject most of what African culture really is about, except Egypt of course. They would much rather place themselves in cultures outside their own. Despite all their boasting and bragging, they really feel no connection with most of Africa.
Posted by at 8:02 PM on October 2
Because that one black man was never included in stories recounting the Titanic disaster, he blamed it on “white racists” not caring about blacks. Incredibly, more blacks joined in to complain that there was not one black person shown in the movie version of the Titanic. Hundreds of Whites perished, but because there might have been one black man to perish as well, the black man’s name should have been known to all.
9:05AM
………………………………
That’s amazing. Thanks. But no, not so very amazing really.
Just consider this: How many blacks would have been on an ocean liner traveling from England to New York in 1912? It’s rather surprising that there was even one.
And, according to statistics, the sinking resulted in the deaths of 1,517 people. Of a total of 2,223 people, only 706 survived. Nearly all the of the First Class women survived, and 86% of the Second Class women did. Men (black or white) were not so lucky. And it was a very different story for Third Class passengers, most of whom didn’t even know where the lifeboats were (and had no access to them anyway).
Out of 1,517 people who perished horribly in dark, icy, ocean waters, blacks are making a fuss about just one man? Sure, it was just more white “racism”!
Posted by ghw at 8:08 PM on October 2
Hey Sardonicus,
This lie comes from the movie True Romance. Dennis Hopper
made this comment saying that the Moors were n-word people.
Yet it seems okay to say that about the spaniards who have about the same makeup of the Sicilians. Wake up people movies
are mostly hogwash with very, very little truth.
Thanks
Posted by at 8:18 PM on October 2
“Sicily was also occupied by the Greeks for many, many centuries, then by the German Vandals, the Arabs and the Normans. Historically, and from personal experience with Sicilians, I would say the Greek influence is by far the strongest. Some of the women resemble a certain Greek type from ancient times and are very pretty. “
Posted by Sardonicus
……………………………
Yes. It could also be pointed out that the opposing coast of North Africa (Cyrenacia) was also Greek during classical times. And then came the Vandals. So, anyone crossing over (with the Saracens) would have been largely from those elements.
It is also necessary to note that there were probably no blacks (or virtually none) in North Africa then, as the trans-Sahara trading routes had not yet been opened up. Any few blacks that were there would have been brought down the Nile through Egypt. They would be rarities.
There is just too much confusion in this country about “blacks” and “Africa”. The two words are not synonymous. In ancient times, North Africa was part of the Mediterranean world. It still very largely is.
“Cyrenaica was an area heavily colonized by the Greeks. The east of the province was called Marmarica, but the important part was in the west, comprising five cities, hence known as the Pentapolis — Cyrene with its port of Apollonia , Arsinoe or Teucheira, Berenice (modern Benghazi) and Barca . (The term “Pentapolis” continued to be used as a synonym for Cyrenaica.)
Conquered by Alexander the Great, it passed to the Ptolemaic dynasty. It was separated from the main kingdom by Ptolemy VIII and given to his son who, dying without heirs in 96 BC, bequeathed it to the Roman Republic.” [Wiki]
I personally have no Sicilian ancestry (hence no ax to grind) but I am very sympathetic. Dopn’t let it bother you. I would suggest just laughing it off. The opinions of those who don’t know what they are talking about aren’t worth getting upset over.
Posted by ghw at 1:44 AM on October 3
“Sicily was also occupied by the Greeks for many, many centuries, then by the German Vandals, the Arabs and the Normans. Historically, and from personal experience with Sicilians, I would say the Greek influence is by far the strongest.”
This is very true. I grew up around Italians, many of them Sicilian and I could always see the difference between the ones that appeared Latin and the ones that appeared Greek. Their neighborhoods were always close to black neighborhoods so they were very familiar with black behavior, and consequently why they didn’t want to associate with them. They are wonderful people and I am blessed to have known them.
Posted by at 5:50 AM on October 3
“Sicily was also occupied by the Greeks for many, many centuries…Historically, and from personal experience with Sicilians, I would say the Greek influence is by far the strongest.”
It should be noted that the largest city of ancient Greece was Syracuse — in Sicily!
(This was before Alexandria was built, in Egypt.)
Posted by at 7:22 PM on October 3
He says he made the movie to “counteract” Eastwood’s film, which was historically accurate. And he “counteracts” it with a film that the author himself admits is “a work of fiction”. What a fool!
Posted by at 7:20 AM on October 6
Spike Lee has tried to make a movie worth seeing for fifty years and still has not made the grade.
Posted by at 3:26 PM on October 6