Study Debunks Asian Students As Top Notchers in U.S.
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Newsmax, July 3, 2008
A belief that Asian-Americans are taking over US universities, outperforming other groups and grabbing the bulk of math, science and engineering degrees has been debunked in a landmark study.
American popular culture is full of claims that Asian Americans are “overrunning college campuses with high enrollment” but “such impressions exaggerate” their presence in US higher education, the study said.
Entitled “Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders—Facts, Not Fiction: Setting the Record Straight,” the study was conducted by New York University, a group of mostly Asian-American educators, and the College Board, a group that holds standardized tests for mostly high school students.
The study showed that the number of Asian-Americans at institutions of higher learning was inflated by foreign students from Asian nations and that not all were top students gaining easy entry to the best colleges and universities to become doctors and engineers.
{snip}
“Because of the assumption that they are doing well and are high achievers, many people assume that they don’t have needs, and they are ignored in education and social policy,” Robert Teranishi, a New York University education professor and key author of the report, told AFP.
{snip}
The “landmark” study was debated recently in the first education “summit” of the Congressional Asian Pacific American Caucus (CAPAC), comprising US lawmakers from the communities.
“The myth of student achievement throughout our communities has masked particular linguistic and cultural needs of our young people for far too long,” said Mike Honda, a Japanese American lawmaker who heads CAPAC.
The report shows “how the ‘model minority’ stereotype is harmful, often leading teachers to overlook (these) students, many of whom may require additional academic support,” said Vivien Stewart of the US-based Asia Society and who was on the panel that compiled report.
{snip}
Furthermore, Asian Americans cannot be generalized as they are an ethnically diverse population having many different languages and dialects with varying economic, social, and cultural factors, the report said.
{snip}
[Editor’s Note: “Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders—Facts, Not Fiction: Setting the Record Straight,” can be read on-line or downloaded here.]
(Posted on July 3, 2008)
Comments
I feel that if you match “real Whites” against even northern Asian Yellows, Whites will win academically.
Too many gypsies, arabs, hispanics, indians, octoroons, hither asiatics etc. are classified as “White” which skews the results.
Posted by Sissy White at 6:37 PM on July 3
Each time I have a conversation with orientals, I ask one question:
If your race is smarter than mine, why do you come to us to take the products of our intellect? Why don’t you create your own? Why cannot you reach any success without help of white race?
I’ve never got an answer.
Posted by alex at 7:19 PM on July 3
I was always amazed at the number of asians on the U. of Washington campus. Where are all these people coming from, I wondered. They don’t look like the people I grew up with in high school in Washington state. They were obviously being brought in from elsewhere.
Posted by at 7:48 PM on July 3
“…Asian Americans cannot be generalized as they are an ethnically diverse population having many different languages and dialects with varying economic, social, and cultural factors…”
Yes, this sounds a lot like whites, but we all know that it is OK to generalize whites.
Posted by Lost in Paradise at 7:51 PM on July 3
Baloney. Asians are given first come service here in the UC system. Have for decades.
Posted by Unemployed WASP at 8:35 PM on July 3
Whatever. To me CAPAC is just another race-based group looking for special treatment and their piece of the pie. Diversity at its finest.
My experience with most Orientals is that they perform well in school, but have the common sense of a garden hose. About four years ago I unknowingly purchased a home in a neighborhood full of Koreans, Indians, Chinese and a mix of others. It was a new, unconstructed development at the time.
Since then I have witnessed people warming up their cars in their garage during the winter months. Yes, the door was opened beforehand, but you can see the fog of exhaust filling up their garage. Another guy was operating a rear-discharge lawn mower without the bagger attached. The clippings were flying into the area between his knees and mid-section. No shoes on, of course. Another Hindu neighbor sits there and watches his wife do most of the lawn work… This is just a few of the highlights.
And this is not a poor neighborhood by any means. Most of these folks have good careers in the Information Technology field. They’re educated, yet most of these first generation immigrants don’t have the slightest clue how to care for themselves outside of what they learned in school.
Do they need help? No. Do they need special treatment? Absolutely not! If they can supposedly do so well in math and science, then they can read a manual to learn how to operate everyday appliances. You can’t teach common sense, even if you throw money and preferences at it.
What I find surprising is that a Japanese guy is spouting this garbage. I was stationed in Japan for 2 years and really developed a lot of respect for their homogeneous culture. If Mr. Honda feels these individuals’ linguistic and cultural needs aren’t being addressed I suggest he tell them to go back to where they came from. However, I am sure Mike Honda isn’t doing this out of respect for his homeland.
Posted by at 8:51 PM on July 3
“The US Census Bureau estimates that there are now almost 17 million Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders, an umbrella term for 48 different ethnic groups from such historically different places as East Asia, South Asia, Southeast Asia, and the Pacific islands.”
This is just an attempt by other non-whites to get some freebies, so they will gladly denigrate themselves in order to get in line with the others.
This is an excellent addition to every story that comes out describing how a particular group or ethnicity wants special treatment, and all of it together makes a mockery of the “Diversity is our strength” nonsense.
“Diversity leads to war,” is the truth that guides me. Now let’s see who is finally going to be proven right. If Las Vegas were laying odds, I would be a 100 to 1 favorite right now, and that figure will likely go higher as the turmoil worsens.
Posted by Ranger at 9:34 PM on July 3
“I’ve never got an answer.”
Well alex, if ALL whites are equally creative and productive as you imply, then why did WHITE Eastern Europeans steal the plans for the IBM 360 so they could duplicate it? Why did Russia have a gigantic technological vaccuum cleaner to take Western developments to duplicate? Why did the USSR duplicate the B-29 when they could have developed their own heavy bombers? Why don’t YOU apply your argument to fellow whites? Is it just a racial thing to insult Asians?
Posted by at 9:40 PM on July 3
Did any of you even read this article? It doesn’t claim at all that whites exceed asian students academically, which is what all of you read into it. It’s just a typical minority grievance study, claiming that just because some (well, obviously!) Asians are succeeding, they are an oppressed group that deserves special treatment, regardless of the fact that on average northeast Asians as well as Indians exceed white students.
And Sissy White is a fool. The White category does NOT include those groups you are talking about, and anyway the Asian category actually includes groups such as Pacific Islanders/Hmong/Arabs etc., in order to give the impression that whites oppress minorities, so if you match European-descended students against say Japanese or Korean descended, the gap actually gets considerably WIDER. The reverse of what you claim is true- other groups are lumped in with East Asians in order to reduce their apparent performance.
Posted by at 10:20 PM on July 3
“Well alex [sic], if ALL whites are equally creative and productive as you imply …”
As usual you miss the point. Alex did not imply “equal creativity” among whites; this a fundamental misreading of plain English. The original question was why Asians developed exactly none of technology at issue on their own. That non-Asians copied Western technology doesn’t address the issue at all. Why did none of the things at which Asians supposedly excel originate among Asians?
Posted by Cassiodorus at 11:25 PM on July 3
Orientals are not as intelligent as European Whites.
This study was done BY Orientals, obviously admitting the correct conclusion in the hopes that they could use it to get some affirmative action for themselves, just like Blacks, Hispanics and women. They may not be as intelligent as Whites, but they’re smart enough to know that they can jump on the affirmative action bandwagon and scare Whites into hiring THEM TOO over more qualified Whites.
Posted by Awakened at 11:28 PM on July 3
To Sissy White,
What´s “real white”? In the beginning of the XX century, an American of German descent was a “white” but a German immigrant could be non “white”…Like the Jews, Irish, Italians, etç…Regardeless of the cultural background or color,
all are Caucasians, and at this point, Mr.Bush was not different of Mr.Saddam…About IQ; Agriculture, Astronomy, Math, the first Citys and Kingdoms…All started in Middle East, between people that you will call “Arabs”. In other words, Eastern Mediterranics. People like Sargon, Darius, Moses, Ramses, Herodotus, Hannibal, Moahmmad or Joshua Makiah, also called Jesus Christ… Like Westerners, heirs of that tradition, we should show more respect.
Posted by Tuga at 12:07 AM on July 4
As the above poster said, sissy white has no idea what she’s talking about; if, for instance, you go and take an SAT, both arabs and hispanics are separate categories from “white.” I’m sure gypsies are probably in there, but I doubt they’re making much of an impact.
Posted by at 1:31 AM on July 4
Well alex, if ALL whites are equally creative and productive as you imply, then why did WHITE Eastern Europeans steal the plans for the IBM 360 so they could duplicate it? Why did Russia have a gigantic technological vaccuum cleaner to take Western developments to duplicate? Why did the USSR duplicate the B-29 when they could have developed their own heavy bombers? Why don’t YOU apply your argument to fellow whites? Is it just a racial thing to insult Asians?
In the communist system engineers earned the same amount of money as street sweepers. This led to massive waste of human capital as far too many people didnt want to push themselves trough several years of hard study for nothing.
Posted by Information Insurgent at 8:41 AM on July 4
The White category does NOT include those groups you are talking about,
Actually hes right, the white category includes arabs, turks, north africans, gypsies etc. There are plenty of “white” americans who would be surprised that they would not pass for white in Europe.
Posted by Information Insurgent at 8:44 AM on July 4
“If your race is smarter than mine, why do you come to us to take the products of our intellect? Why don’t you create your own? Why cannot you reach any success without help of white race?”
“Well alex, if ALL whites are equally creative and productive as you imply, then why did WHITE Eastern Europeans steal the plans for the IBM 360 so they could duplicate it?”
We have to consider that environmental factors do have significant effects on a population’s performance. Every race goes through periods of stagnation, despite how productive they typically are. Both East Asia and Eastern Europe have produced some very distinguished individuals, so I don’t think it’s due to any lack of inherent ability.
Posted by at 10:04 AM on July 4
In the communist system engineers earned the same amount of money as street sweepers. This led to massive waste of human capital as far too many people didnt want to push themselves trough several years of hard study for nothing.
Information Insurgent
you are mainly correct. I AM Russian. I have lived 45 years in Russia. You, who object my statement on the abiliry of the white race, know 0 (zero!) what was going on in Russia under communism.
In short, communists allowed to develope ONLY what they needed to protect their power. They needed the military power? They got it one of the best. They didnot believe in computers, they didnot allow EVEN work on this subject.
So, you example of Russia’s achievement as an under-achievemen of white race has 0(zero!) value.
Posted by alex at 11:50 AM on July 4
“Well alex, if ALL whites are equally creative and productive as you imply, then why did WHITE Eastern Europeans steal the plans for the IBM 360 so they could duplicate it?”
Freedom is needed for innovation…
Posted by Madame Smythe at 5:44 PM on July 4
A pretense to obtain affirmative action preferences for a group that doesn’t need affirmative action. This would put every group ahead of whitey by rule of law.
Posted by Fissile at 7:07 PM on July 4
“The original question was why Asians developed exactly none of technology at issue on their own. That non-Asians copied Western technology doesn’t address the issue at all. Why did none of the things at which Asians supposedly excel originate among Asians? “
Excuse me? You think only Asians are capable of, to use RobertB’s lexicon, “stolen,” technology for use by themselves?
Look at how the White European-Russians have “stolen” the use of the Yagi-Uda antenna in order to come up with a low-frequency VHF radar to detect, track and destroy American stealth aircraft.
http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Nebo-SVU-Analysis.html
“The Nebo SVU is an important strategic development. It is a modern technology radar by global standards, and its two metre band wavelength will provide it with a robust capability against fighter and cruise missile sized VLO/LO targets. The radar’s combination of frequency agility, beamsteering agility, fully digital processing and very good mobility by VHF radar standards sets it apart from two generations of Soviet era VHF radars. If deployed in robust numbers, the Nebo SVU will be capable of frustrating offensive operations by any air force not equipped with an F-22 or better capability.”
“We can see the Stealth [F-117A] as clearly as any other plane”.
“In conclusion, the world’s first mobile VHF AESA presents a credible capability and introduces all of the refinements seen in modern L-band and S-band acquisition radars into a VHF band design. The claims of a viable capability against conventional VLO/LO designs should be taken seriously [2]. The 1L119 Nebo SVU will provide a credible capability for a range of roles, including its use as a battery target acquisition radar for the S-300PMU-1/2 / SA-20 Gargoyle and S-400 / SA-21 Growler Surface to Air Missile systems. As the design has considerable growth potential, it may remain in ongoing development and production for decades [3].”
Look at how even Whites in the US and UK used this “stolen” technology in the past:
“The Yagi was first widely used during World War II for airborne radar sets, because of its simplicity and directionality. The Japanese military authorities first became aware of this technology after the Battle of Singapore when they captured the notes of a British radar technician that mentioned “yagi antenna”. Japanese intelligence officers did not even recognise that Yagi was a Japanese name in this context. When “questioned” the technician said it was an antenna named after a Japanese professor. (This story is analogous to the story of American intelligence officers interrogating German rocket scientists and finding out that Robert Goddard was the real pioneer of rocket technology even though he was not well known in the US at that time.)
“Despite its being invented in Japan, many Japanese radar engineers were unaware of the design until very late in the war, due to internal fighting between the Army and Navy. A horizontally polarized array can be seen under the left leading edge of Grumman F4F, F6F, TBF Avenger carrier based Navy aircraft. Vertically polarized arrays can be seen on the cheeks of the P-61 and on the nose cones of many WWII aircraft, notably some versions of the German Junkers Ju 88 R1 fighter-bomber, and the British Bristol Beaufighter night-fighter, and Short Sunderland flying-boat. Indeed, the latter had so many antenna elements arranged on its back it was nicknamed the “Flying Porcupine” by German airmen.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yagi_antenna
So don’t give this me this stuff about how Asians don’t originate and just copy Whites.
Posted by at 11:42 PM on July 4
I’m of 100% Mexican descent, classified as “Caucasian” on my birth certificate, and I have yet to encounter a single white as intelligent as myself. But you’ll be glad to hear that a lot of whites are still as practical as your average Mexican. I’ll stil consult with white neighbors when it comes to figuring out a new project and they consistently share good advice and (albeit expensive) references. When it comes to calculating costs Mexicans are still a lot more practical.
Posted by Xicano at 12:05 AM on July 5
What a hoot! Any self respecting Korean I ever met would kick your but for even considering he has special needs. They are the most racist folks on Earth except the Japanse who enslave them every 500 years. The Japanese even have folk tales about how the stupid Koreans kept coal in their bath tubs after they moved into apartments built for them by their Japanese masters.
The Chinese are not racist at all. How can you be a racist when you believe all other human beings are of a different form of lower animal life. They would think this essay ridiculous since all but Chinnese are impossible to teach anything to since all are intellectually inferior to them.
The next great war will be between the Indians leading all other Asians in a battle of genocide against the Korean-Chinese- Japanese coalition. The winner will have the right to rule over the North American grain belt, a prize that makes all the Earth`s oil patches seem petty.
Charles B. Tiffany
Kissimmee, Florida
Posted by Charles B. Tiffany at 2:35 AM on July 5
“Excuse me? You think only Asians are capable of, to use RobertB’s lexicon, “stolen,” technology for use by themselves?”
You are clearly incapable of making even the most basic logical distinctions. No one here has said that whites have never committed industrial espionage or copied technologies by fair means or foul. The question, again, is why, if some sort of technological genius resides peculiarly in Asians, they are not the originators of any single aspect of technology that has made the modern world what it is. The question is NOT whether anyone else is “capable” of using others’ work. Your post, lengthy as it is, is merely irrelevant. If it were up to Asian technology, there would be nothing man-made in the air at all, let alone means to track such a thing or fuel or electric power to run them. There is exactly nothing to suggest that left to Asia alone the technological milieu of 2008 would be very different from that of 1308. Your post is an irrelevant datum drawn from the chronological tail end of the story, just as your earlier irrelevant posts about Chinese computer companies leave completely unaddressed the origins of the computer itself, Asian improvements notwithstanding.
Posted by Cassiodorus at 10:42 AM on July 5
“Entitled “Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders—Facts, Not Fiction: Setting the Record Straight,” the study was conducted by New York University, a group of mostly Asian-American educators…”
Gee, you think they’d be unbiased??? NOT!
ARE YOU INSANE!?
When I was a Doctoral student at the first institution I wanted to get my PhD, I had to suffer through a ‘project’ where we were doing a piece by Gustav Mahler. The Chinese instrumentalist could NOT understand, let alone ‘get’ the nuance, and ‘gemutlichkeit’ of Mahler’s Viennese, fin-de-siecle style, and did NOT understand the poetry the singers were singing, replete as it was with references to German culture, Christian religion, and European notions of ‘freedom.’ No matter how often the ‘master teacher’ tried to convey the musical Weltanaschuung, it never got off the ground. The only think that ‘saved’ the final performance were the singers; each was steeped in this style, and one of them had been taught by a teacher who spent each summer in Vienna!
Yet this ‘wonderful’ Asian musician was given a free ride by the University, while some far more deserving ‘native [Anglo] American’ had been bypased, and it was this Anglo’s culture!
So, don’t tell me that Asians are not overrunning our hospitals, technology centers, or even our indigenous Art forms. I live in the Midwest, and left California because it was so blatant there, twenty years ago!
This study is bogus.
Posted by AlmostMusicPhD at 10:52 AM on July 5
I disagree, Mr. Tiffany. China appears to be a territorially satisfied power.
Moreover, your notion of a pan-Asian horde invading the US grain belt is just silly. I’m going to say it again: silly. What you have concocted out of thin air is a century-old “Yellow Horde”.
Japanese think Chinese and Koreans are inferior. Chinese hate Japanese. Koreans are caught somewhere in the middle. East Asia is the most over-militarized area outside the Middle East. Some border adjustments would be proper in SE Asia. The Muslim parts of the Philippines should be independant of the Catholic north, or part of Indonesia. The Spratley Islands will be a major conflict point in the future. China, Malaysia, The Philippines, and Vietnam all claim some part of them. There’s more oil there than there ever was in Saudi Arabia.
The next war will be fought over the South China Sea, and it won’t be fought with bombs and bullets, but with dollars and euros.
Posted by Michael C. Scott at 1:49 PM on July 5
I work in Silicon Valley, and this place is crawling with Asians. They’re really not that bad, other than the Indians. They are academically intelligent, and I wouldn’t say there aren’t creative either. They just seem a little naive about certain things. Moreover, Indians in particular are some of the most depraved people I’ve ever met in my life. The men are extremely oversexed and perverted. I’ve seen many of them obsessed with porn and strippers, scaring many of the women around them. I wouldn’t say this is a sign of any lack of intelligence, but a lack of morals. I don’t enjoy being around these curry eaters very much, but I sort of have no choice about the matter.
George Manuelian
Atherton, CA
Posted by George Manuelian at 3:24 PM on July 5
“So don’t give this me this stuff about how Asians don’t originate and just copy Whites.”
No one said that. Here, we are looking at broad cultural/racial trends, over the centuries. Greece, Rome, the Renaissance, the industrial revolution, rights, rule of law, limited government.
Within these broad trends, we look at rates. Like inventions per million (population), rapes per million, felons per million, etcetera.
One invention? The exception that proves the rule.
Posted by belle kerve at 3:46 PM on July 5
“I’m of 100% Mexican descent, classified as “Caucasian” on my birth certificate, and I have yet to encounter a single white as intelligent as myself.”
Well, what are your usual social circles- the faculty at Cal Tech?
Maybe you are six sigma on the bell curve (surely, you know what that means)- smartest Mexican west of the Pecos.
If in fact you are caucasian, why compare yourself against Whites?
Posted by dr. poon tang at 3:57 PM on July 5
“Well alex, if ALL whites are equally creative and productive as you imply, then why did WHITE Eastern Europeans steal the plans for the IBM 360 so they could duplicate it? Why did Russia have a gigantic technological vaccuum cleaner to take Western developments to duplicate? Why did the USSR duplicate the B-29 when they could have developed their own heavy bombers? Why don’t YOU apply your argument to fellow whites? Is it just a racial thing to insult Asians?”
Posted by at 9:40 PM on July 3
The Soviets and others steal secrets because it actually is easier and less time consuming - not to mention cheaper than going through all the trouble to invent the same thing yourself. But it must also be recognized that our best WW2 fighters were developed by a Georgian immigrant to America who came in 1914. Here is a snippet from Wikipedia on Alexander Karveli. (I think we can trust this one).
Alexander Kartveli (Georgian: ალექსანდრე ქართველიშვილი) 1896-1974, born Kartvelishvili) was an aircraft engineer and a pioneer of American aviation.
Kartveli was born in Tbilisi, Georgia, then in Russian Empire. He graduated from the Gymnasium in Tbilisi in 1914.
Kartveli graduated in 1922 from the Highest School of Aviation in Paris. In 1922-1927, he worked for a while at the Louis Bleriot Company and designed the “Bernard” and “Ferbois” aircraft . In 1924, one of his aircraft established a world speed record.
In 1927, American millionaire Charles Levine invited Kartveli to New York. In 1928 he joined the Fokker American Company. In 1931 Kartveli met well-known engineer Alexander de Seversky, who was also from Georgia, and became Chief Engineer at the Seversky Aircraft Corporation. In 1939 this Company changed its name to the “Republic Aviation Company”.
Kartveli and Seversky created a series of aircraft and during World War II they designed one of its greatest planes, the Republic P-47.
After World War II, Kartveli designed well-known aircraft such as the Republic F-84 Thunderjet and the Republic F-105 Thunderchief.
Kartveli died in 1974, in New York.
Interesting to note also that the Japanese Zero was based on Howard Hughe’s H-1 plane that set an air speed record in the 1930s. Spies stole the plans. (Hughes had some justification in his paranoia regarding spies).
I happen to have known the physicist who was the head of the Northrop team that developed the “PC” initially for a U.S. Dept of Defense contract. He is white and a many generationed American who grew up in Southern California.
Regardless, it has been up to now the way America often attracts talent to it that has often produced some of its best products and results. Ultimately, however the argument remains that these inventive people have been invariably European (people from the West of the Ural mountatins) and White.
Posted by Whiteplight at 4:28 PM on July 5
While everyone’s debating the Oriental propensity for innovation, and bringing Russians and Eastern Europeans into the fray, consider this:
Both the American and Russian space programs had their genesis in German rocket science. The only difference was this: If you were a German rocket science in 1945, you were sent to either America or the USSR based which conquering army got to you first. If there were no WWII, or the outcome would have been different, the first words uttered by humans on the moon’s surface would have been in German.
As it is today, anytime anyone wants to sell you something, from cars to watches to ultra-absorbent towels, and they want you to think it’s quality stuff, they’ll tell you (or they’ll make you think) it’s made in Germany.
Posted by Question Diversity at 5:01 PM on July 5
“I’ve seen many of them obsessed with porn and strippers”
-well most of my friends are white and they LOVE their porn and strip clubs, maybe the Indians are picking it up by living in a white country.
Posted by at 5:31 PM on July 5
The discussion has been veered, by the efforts of non-whites, on a wrong path.
The article and my note talk about intelligence of whites against Asians; you, opponents, talk about politics.
Bringing in examples of unlawful use of scientific achievements and technology between white nations, it is politics. In any case they are white nations’ achievements against the rest of the world.
I know from the first hand, that China after the WWII made extreme efforts to rid of the dependents on Russia. It offered Chinese scientists money and conditions that Russians and Americans could not dream about. As Russian scientists joked Chinese ‘scientists’ were unable to engineer a toaster. EVERYTHING they have now either bought or stolen from the USA or Russia.
The point is. We, whites, don’t come to Orient countries or Latin counties to get better life. You come to us.
Orientals and Latinos, are you smarter than whites as you believe? Well, it is okay with me. So stay in your countries and prove, prove it practically, that you are able to build better society than ours.
Flourish, yet let us alone, let us rot in the misery of our intellect. We don’t need you. YOU need us.
This is the point.
Posted by alex at 6:35 PM on July 5
“So don’t give this me this stuff about how Asians don’t originate and just copy Whites.”
It’s not that Asians don’t originate things. They have in the past. Over the last 700 or so years, invention has overwhelmingly been the province of Europeans and their offshoot states (primarily America). Charles Murray did the most exhaustive research on the subject, and laid out all his findings in the excellent book called “Human Accomplishment”.
That Europeans in the last 700 have invented most of the things used in modern society is beyond question.
As to Mexicans being considered White; well, the PC crowd like to lump them in with whites when it comes to crime statistics (so as to downplay the disparate criminality aspect), but keep them separate when it comes to doling out affirmative action and special privileges. It’s beyond pathetic.
Posted by at 9:00 PM on July 5
I suppose its time to wade into the tar. I would argue that oriental societies may show less inventiveness because they allow the individual to exhibit much less individuality. In the US you can make a living as hot shot smart consultant. Imagine if you developed some kick ass product in China,good luck patenting it.
In the US on the other hand you have much stronger patent laws. Here David really can beat Goliath.
Socially its very difficult to be cutting edge and do things differently. People thought I was crazy when I said buy energy back in 2006 when oil had reached all time record highs. In societies like Japan and China social conformity is even more valued than here in the West.
Even here in the states we have ALOT of group think but fortunately society is tolerant enough here that marginal groups can come together and its even possible for marginial individuals to survive. Socially speaking that is less possible the Orient.
As Walter Kronkite wrote change is initiated at the margins of the political system. Therefore if a political system is too stable you have no change.
“The point is. We, whites, don’t come to Orient countries or Latin counties to get better life. You come to us.”
I know alot of people who go to Asia to live a better life. Why? Its simple the economy is growing at 8%+ in China, that’s a must faster rate than the US. The smartest people in Asia aren’t coming to the US they’re in Asia. Also some of the most highly qualified experts in the West spend most their time in Asia. Its simple economics the higher the rate of growth the more green you make.
The best people in the world are really spending more and more time in Asia because it just pays more.
I think this debate is silly people operate context of social systems. Most Americans can live in China without too many problems for either the Chinese or themselves. Likewise for most Asians here. Its silly and pointless.
Posted by Yellow Man at 10:21 PM on July 5
“…’I have yet to encounter a single white as intelligent as myself.’…”
I assume from your comment you high-mindedly and proudly consider yourself non-White—and aver that you are more intelligent than Whites.
Despite your anecdotal offering of yourself as being of superior intelligence to Whites, here are a few sobering FACTS about the colonizers from Mexico:
According to Hispanics: A Statistical Portrait:
“…The great majority of hispanics — 66 percent — are of Mexican origin…”
“…The average hispanic 12th-grader reads and does math at the level of the average White 8th-grader….”
Must be because they have superior intelligence, right?
And:
“…third-generation [hispanic] immigrants earn 81 percent of the wages of California whites. By contrast, by the third generation, Asian immigrants earn 12 percent more than whites…”
I suspect if it were not for AA, the White/hispanic wage gap would be much larger.
http://www.amren.com/features/hispanics/
BTW: Lest you think the statistics in the article are anecdotal or fictional, there are 91 citations listed at the end, many from hispanic/latino sources.
As Jared Taylor stated in his debate with White-hating racist Jose Gutierrez:
“…Well for some reason we didn’t go looking for rocket scientists in Mexico, did we? I think if we went looking there today we still wouldn’t find any. I think you could look all through Latin America and not find a single rocket scientist, whereas in Germany you had rocket scientists sixty years ago…”
http://www.amren.com/features/gutierrez/transcript.htm
Yes, hispanics, who have superior intelligence to Whites (as you imply), who have messed up their own countries, seek mightily to enter Whites-created countries. Why do you think that is?
Couldn’t be that those pesky Whites, the ones of lesser intelligence, fashioned something that no other race ever has been able to produce for themselves—advanced technology and medicine, First World cities, a nation of laws, economic and financial systems that work, while Mexico is marked by corruption and failure and is on its way to being one more Latin American narco-state.
Bon
Posted by BonBon at 10:45 PM on July 5
Asians do have invented some primitive technology of their own but they have a very hard time thinking outside the box. While there are the occasional creative asian, they are so few that they seldom have any impact.
F.ex the chinese had primitive paddle wheel ships for river use, the power source was chinese peasants running in a giant hamster wheel and not a steam engine. The wheel was also of a primitive type, not the paddle righting type that always kept the paddles vertical for maximum efficiency. Whites developed paddle wheel technology far beyond what the chinese did despite the latter having used them for hundreds of years and the whites only for a few decades. Another interesting technology was black powdered rockets - the chinese attached a rocket to a spear, whites attached a black powder blasting charge to the rocket. The chinese even developed a repeating crossbow that was used as late as the 20’s. Whites developed firearms instead which have way better range and knockdown power.
BTW, the soviets didnt steal tech because it was cheaper than making it yourself, they had to steal it because they didnt have enough engineering power to develop it on their own for reasons outlined in posts above. Its far better to develop tech on your own than copying it since you build up a cadre of inventive and knowledge searching people in the process, as your reserach produce spinoff ideas you eventually reap huge benefits not directly related to the original effort.
Posted by Information Insurgent at 9:39 AM on July 6
didn’t rushton or ? say something about how European males had relatively high IQs, and COMBINED WITH relatively high testosterone levels, the combination yielded risktaking, creative, cooperative behavior that resulted in White Guys being the #1 inventors in the world? That the right mix of hormones and brains allowed our men to go beyond low IQ races, and also high testosterone/low IQ counterparts who were far more prone to violence and frankly incapable of innovation? What say you, White Men?
Posted by leyla at 2:43 PM on July 6
“I think this debate is silly people operate context of social systems. Most Americans can live in China without too many problems for either the Chinese or themselves. Likewise for most Asians here. Its silly and pointless.”
Posted by Yellow Man at 10:21 PM on July 5
On a different, but nonetheless pertinent note, I bet the Chinese and other Asian races don’t dish out citizenship, voting entitlement and exclusive human rights privileges like confetti to any and every alien enterloper who encroaches on their territories as do our treasonist white elite to the unfettered masses from all over the non-white Third World, habitually invading white homelands.
Asian races would not tolerate mass alien immigration and asylum seeking, let alone illegal entry into their homelands. Only the ruling elite of white homelands are wilful and treacherous enough to conspire and engage in the deliberate destruction of their own peoples, heritages and cultures.
Posted by A Swain at 7:01 PM on July 6
I’m not sure if Asians are collectively less smart than whites. Afterall, look at the Japanese, Koreans, Taiwanese, Chinese. They face declining birth rates but aren’t the ones easily conditioned to be letting in an infinite number of diverse immigrants pretending somehow that’s enrichment.
Posted by at 7:52 PM on July 6
I’ve noticed one difference between the Japanese and the Chinese. Both are bright, competitive, and are over achievers. The difference is if the Chinese is at the top of the class he or she tends to be very humble i.e. “I’m really not that smart, not that good etc. If a Japanese is at the top its “damn right I deserve it because I am smarter than you and work harder than you do too!”
Whether or not the Asians are indeed smarter overall is debatable but their countries do not have to deal with political correctness and the artificial propping up of an inferior race. Furthermore, as our leader here can probably attest, there is no university on the face of the planet that is more competitive than Tokyo University. Many students who fail the entrance examination commit suicide.
Consequently, while the American High School kids go to school and take about four hours of course work, the Japanese go to school longer, take more courses, then go to their tutoring schools after their school day ends where they puts in several more hours of study before bed. In this country the white kids tend to study less than one hour a day and the African - Americans hit the basketball courts or the streets immediately after school.
Whether or not the Asians are brighter is problematical. Whether or not they outwork their American and European counterparts is not subject to conjecture. It is a fact!
MoMo
Posted by MoMo at 11:20 PM on July 6
“Consequently, while the American High School kids go to school and take about four hours of course work, the Japanese go to school longer, take more courses, then go to their tutoring schools after their school day ends where they puts in several more hours of study before bed.”
That’s probably why Asians don’t invent as much as whites. They are too obsessed with following the rules and being good little boys and girls. This is not a culture that is prone to risk-taking and exploration and innovation.
Posted by sofita at 10:05 AM on July 7
“Furthermore, as our leader here can probably attest, there is no university on the face of the planet that is more competitive than Tokyo University.”
Tokyo University is small potatoes compared to Harvard, MIT, Princeston, Yale and Cambridge to name a few. Those educational systems are much better because they don’t put inhuman pressure on kids which drives them to sucicide if they fail.
“Whether or not they outwork their American and European counterparts is not subject to conjecture. It is a fact!”
No it isn’t. Please don’t try to pass off your opinions as fact.
Posted by Tallyman at 10:49 AM on July 7
“Japanese think Chinese and Koreans are inferior. Chinese hate Japanese. Koreans are caught somewhere in the middle.”
Koreans ‘hate’ Japan too.
Most Americans admire all three. It’s said that Americans are benevolently ignorant about Canada but that Canadians are malevolently aware of the USA. Perhaps America’s attitude about the far-east is the same as their attitude towards Canada.
Posted by at 3:25 PM on July 7
China has 1.3 billion people.
Much of the time it tends to be the brightest who find a way to the West, sometimes because of school or jobs, which vetted out the average and below-average ones before they left home.
The offspring of bright parents will probably also be achievers.
Posted by at 5:34 PM on July 7
leyla , psychological experiments have shown that creativity is related to how the brain sorts information, not testosterone levels. Creativity is linked to some aspects of IQ but its not an 1:1 correlation.
Posted by Information Insurgent at 7:09 PM on July 7
“Well alex, if ALL whites are equally creative and productive as you imply, then why did WHITE Eastern Europeans steal the plans for the IBM 360 so they could duplicate it? Why did Russia have a gigantic technological vaccuum cleaner to take Western developments to duplicate? Why did the USSR duplicate the B-29 when they could have developed their own heavy bombers? Why don’t YOU apply your argument to fellow whites? Is it just a racial thing to insult Asians?”
This is irrelevant. This argument never works. It doesn’t explain why Asians have to always copy whites. You can show us whites who copy other whites but can you show us any Asians who create as much as some whites?
Posted by Courtney at 10:31 PM on July 8
“…regardless of the fact that on average northeast Asians as well as Indians exceed white students.”
I guess this is why India is such a marvelous country and Europe is so backwards (rolling eyes). Not all Asians are equal, my friend.
Posted by Courtney at 10:34 PM on July 8
“To Sissy White,
What´s “real white”? In the beginning of the XX century, an American of German descent was a “white” but a German immigrant could be non “white”…Like the Jews, Irish, Italians, etç…Regardeless of the cultural background or color,
all are Caucasians, and at this point, Mr.Bush was not different of Mr.Saddam…About IQ; Agriculture, Astronomy, Math, the first Citys and Kingdoms…All started in Middle East, between people that you will call “Arabs”. In other words, Eastern Mediterranics. People like Sargon, Darius, Moses, Ramses, Herodotus, Hannibal, Moahmmad or Joshua Makiah, also called Jesus Christ… Like Westerners, heirs of that tradition, we should show more respect. “
Oh brother, please don’t start with this garbage. First of all, none of the things the Middle East created compares to what Greeks and later Europeans created. Second of all, arabs aren’t white. And the people living in certain parts of the Middle East back then were Indo-European. My point: Don’t give arabs credit for something the Persians did, please.
Posted by Courtney at 10:38 PM on July 8
“We have to consider that environmental factors do have significant effects on a population’s performance. Every race goes through periods of stagnation, despite how productive they typically are. Both East Asia and Eastern Europe have produced some very distinguished individuals, so I don’t think it’s due to any lack of inherent ability.”
You guys keep making these sorry excuses for Asians while ignoring the fact that 90% (90%!!!!) of science has been created by whites. How do you explain this? Is this just an accident? And I am getting my 90% from what I see in just about every reliable book that talks about the history of science.
Posted by Courtney at 10:43 PM on July 8
“It’s not that Asians don’t originate things. They have in the past. Over the last 700 or so years, invention has overwhelmingly been the province of Europeans and their offshoot states (primarily America). Charles Murray did the most exhaustive research on the subject, and laid out all his findings in the excellent book called “Human Accomplishment”.”
I will repeat: 90% of science has been developed by whites. It is irrelevant that the Chinese developed such and such in 300 BC. The case remains that “90% of science has been developed by whites”.
Posted by Courtney at 10:54 PM on July 8
“can you show us any Asians who create as much as some whites?”
Sure.
“Ravi Arimilli is IBM’s top patent holder, with more than 300 patents. He’s a researcher, based in Austin, who specializes in computer chip innards. Arimilli’s most recent patent, issued Nov. 29, is for “Layered local cache with lower level cache optimizing allocation mechanism.” He must be great at cocktail parties.”
“In 2002 alone, Arimilli won 78 patents. That’s three patents every two weeks.”
“When the USPTO made that 1997 list of living prolific inventors, the No. 1 patent holder was Shunpei Yamazaki. Most of his work involves computer and video screens for his Tokyo company, Semiconductor Energy Laboratory. As of 1997, Yamazaki held 372 patents.
“Today, a search of the USPTO database turns up 1,432 patents bearing his name, whupping both Edison and Weder. Yamazaki’s most recent patent, granted Nov. 22, was titled, “Reflective liquid crystal display panel and device using same.” His first patent, for a computer chip design, was granted in 1980. Yamazaki has averaged about a patent a week for 25 years.
Oddly enough, “America’s greatest inventor is apparently an obscure guy in Japan who makes stuff most people can’t comprehend. And the nation’s greatest native inventor seems to be a man who has come up with 100 different ways to make a flower pot.”
SO it’s not the Japanese guy adding the extra screw here and there, it’s one of your guys…
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/technology/maney/2005-12-06-top-patent-hoders_x.htm
Posted by at 11:33 AM on July 9
“90% (90%!!!!) of science has been created by whites. How do you explain this? Is this just an accident?”
Could be. Ever see the television series “Connections”?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connections_(TV_series)
Posted by at 12:05 PM on July 9
“Could be. Ever see the television series “Connections”?
Ever read a real book? Ever derive information from something more reliable than Wikipedia? Ever learn that anecdotes about individual inventors do not affect questions such as the one being discussed here in the least?
“SO it’s not the Japanese guy adding the extra screw here and there”
Really? Computers are a Japanese invention? To address the claim that Asians are sometimes improvers but rarely if ever innovators you provide two Asians working with technology completely Western in origin. These anecdotes are conclusive proof that you fail to understand the question.
Posted by Cassiodorus at 10:03 AM on July 10