No Hate Crimes?
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Robert Lindsay, Robert Lindsay, July 10, 2008
On the more mainstream and moderate White nationalist sites such as American Renaissance, the general tone of the pieces and in the comments is that there really is no such thing as White racism in the US anymore.
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The usual response is to say that these people are just a bunch of lying racists.
I will, however, say that there is some truth to these accusations. Racism by Whites is dramatically exaggerated in the US, and every little comment or scribble is inspected for the horrible crime. Hispanics and Blacks in particular are far too wont to yell racism over every little thing, in many cases over mostly or completely innocent comments.
Entire subjects that do not necessarily have anything to do with racism are walled off and forbidden from discussion. On the other hand, non-Whites get to bash away at Whites for all of their racial crimes, past, present and future, while Whites are supposed to sit there and take it, groveling, like guilty supplicants. There is a presumption that non-Whites are incapable of racism and that Whites are automatically filled with it.
This is all pretty much nonsense, but it’s a product of the Left in the US and West that started this whole crazy conversation about 40 years ago. They’ve been quite successful selling this nonsense to the public.
On the other hand, there surely is racism in the US. I don’t think much of the Southern Poverty Leadership Center, but they do have an interesting list of racist incidents in the US for the first three months of 2008. It seems pretty incredible the amount of this stuff that is going on, or is it?
{snip}
You will note that simple name-calling is apparently not listed, and is not a crime. Some of the stuff on that list seem a bit of a reach. In the course of a fight, or altercation, racial slurs are uttered. Now we have a hate crime.
{snip}
{snip} Unfortunately, in a free society people get to call each other names, and in the course of fights, people will just call each other any slur that comes to their minds that seems to apply to the person they are fighting.
For instance, in the past ten years, I did call a Black man a nigger once. On the other hand, I’m going to say I’m not a racist.
He ran a recycling place and I used to take my bottles up there. He got mad at me when I did not separate my browns from my greens from my clears. I forget what happened, but a shouting match ensued. This is not normal behavior for me—I’m actually a quiet guy and I don’t get into it much with people. Well, in the course of this argument, I called him a nigger. Not once, but a few times.
{snip}
I wonder how often this sort of thing goes on? In the course of fights and shouting matches, angry people will say stuff they would not ordinarily say. Not out of racism or bigotry, but because in a fight, you use any ammo you’ve got.
{snip}
On the White Nationalist boards, there is a lot of talk about how most assaults by Blacks against Whites are accompanied by racial slurs. Typically, the police deny that a hate crime occurred. The White Nationalists have an interesting point, and if White assaults combined with slurs get hate crime attachments, it’s about time to start slamming a lot of Blacks with the same stuff.
I guess the assumption is that the Black criminal just wanted to attack the person or rob them just to be a criminal, and that the racist stuff was secondary, and therefore the attack was not primarily bias-motivated, it was primarily dirty criminal motivated. Perhaps that is so, but fair is fair, and there does appear to be a double-standard here.
There were 104 incidents over a 93 day period in the first three months of 2008. That’s a little over one a day, and most all of these incidents are pretty serious. A 2005 report by the US government found that there were 191,000 hate crimes in that year. That’s 600 a day! That’s 24 an hour. One every two or three minutes.
I wonder what standard they were using to judge what is a hate crime? The same as in the list? If so, there’s still a big problem here in the US. If they are using everything down to my little argument above, the report is pretty meaningless. Someone might want to get ahold of that report and see what’s really in it.
White nationalists say that in a multicultural society, these sort of incidents are to be expected and are in fact normal. Why? Because a certain amount of racial hostility is to be expected in such a society. Are they right? If not, why not?
The appropriate response to this issue is the Middle Way, as the Taoists say. Not to overemphasize racism and exaggerate it out of all sanity, and not, on the other hand, to say that it barely even exists anymore.
{snip}
(Posted on July 11, 2008)
Comments
As for the list and map of “incidents” provided by that Center, and the list of “hate groups,” I have seen them both, and I often wonder how the SPLC can know about all these groups that I, in the right-wing gossip circuit, have never heard of. Methinks a certain someone is given to exaggeration.
Posted by Question Diversity at 6:15 PM on July 11
“The appropriate response to this issue is the Middle Way, as the Taoists say. Not to overemphasize racism and exaggerate it out of all sanity, and not, on the other hand, to say that it barely even exists anymore.”
No, that is not the “Middle Way”. It’s the “Lazy Way”. It’s the way of people who are too lazy to do the research or who have decided that they’re out of space in whatever column they happen to be writing. Sometimes the middle way is correct but reality is not a democracy and just because a lot of people are yelling one thing and another bunch of people are yelling the opposite does NOT mean that the truth lies in the middle. Furthermore Mr. Lindsay doesn’t take into consideration that much (if not most) of the “racism” against blacks is actually resentment based on having been victims of black crime of of the special privileges that blacks enjoy at the expense of whites and Asians.
Still, except for that one paragraph is pretty progressive coming from a leftist - so perhaps I’m being too harsh on him.
Posted by jewamongyou at 7:01 PM on July 11
Is the fact that hispanics are counted as whites when they commit criminal acts contributing to the number of White hate crimes?
Like these guys, click on the picture and check the race.
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/wanted/
Posted by William Hope at 7:36 PM on July 11
“I’m going to say I’m not a racist.”
I’m not a racist either. If fact, I look around and see I’m actually a victim of racism. I don’t deny it, for the most part I no longer fall for the white-guilt routine. It did take me a long, long time to figure it out. A long agonizing time. There’s no denying it, I’m white and I’m a victim of racism. I’ve found that noticing that pretty much makes me a ‘Nazi’. Often I admit that I’m a racist, just for the purpose of being understood, or, in a sense of honesty, for I do believe in white racial activism, and hey, that’s ‘racism’. In my own mind, though, like Mr Lindsay, I’m not a racist.
To tell another story… I watched William Buckley Jr argue on TV that drugs should be legalized in America. The moderator mentioned, ‘you know, if cocaine were legal, there’s a chance I’d go out and try it’.
If it weren’t for the constant ‘anti-racism’, whether this is hatred of whites or not, If it wasn’t for the constant conditioning… I might actually be a genuine racist. Well, I am pretty intelligent, but a lot of people with lower IQ’s might be. There’s also the point of ‘why not be an evil racist’? We will certainly be punished as if we are whether we are or not. The negative stigma of racism will always be on us, in this lifetime, anyway. All whites are suspected of being racist until they prove otherwise. Oh how we try and remove the negative stigma. The most we can hope to do is build ourselves up to an even zero.
Posted by I'm not a racist. . at 8:17 PM on July 11
A lot of blacks (Hispanics will catch up when they’re not so scared to bring a case to law enforcement) are in the constant mode of waiting for dollar signs to pop up out of a situation in which a white could be blamed for something race-related.
Posted by at 8:18 PM on July 11
What is noteworthy about this article is that the author identifies himself as an “independent left journalist from California.”
Mr. Lindsay, you come off as a very reasonable guy. I wonder how often you look at this Amren site. Possibly fairly often. Why would you do that? Because you sense that this site is presenting a piece of the truth that everyone else is denying, and you have a thirst for the truth.
Of course, you can’t leave a comment, because that would open up the possibility of a lynching from your friends on the left, who would abandon you very quickly. But welcome, anyway.
Posted by Reader-1 at 10:59 PM on July 11
I repeat myself too much on this board so if you’ve read my comments before, skip to the next.
I work in an urban setting and I interact with many white people all day. Most are indifferent to me. Some are friendly. Some are down right rude.
As a white man, I don’t see the boorish behavior that I get from a few other whites as a racial attack. I see it for what it is; rude white people taking out their life frustrations out on me.
However, when a black man he encounters a rude or disrespecting white man (who may not be racially aware at all), he can easily misconstrue the white mans’ rudeness for racism. And if a black man has a racial chip on his shoulder, he can quickly construct a racial incident in his own mind where none exists.
This is one reason I avoid blacks. No interaction, no confrontation.
Posted by sbuffalonative at 11:00 PM on July 11
Welly welly well, Robert Lindsay — who I once thought of as AmRen’s resident lefty punching bag — is turning out to be a rather interesting person. As another poster on here said of him not long ago, Mr. Lindsay seems to be undergoing a major ideological shift from left to right. The Communist Party of the USA — of which Lindsay was actually a card-carrying member before, according to his own account, being expelled for his racial unorthodoxy — would seem to agree with this assessment.
The above essay similarly bespeaks a confused author, and a conscience in transition. Lindsay is clearly conflicted — and I for one find his conflicts sympathetic. No, I’m not being sarcastic. Although few here on AmRen have anything as drastic or as egregious as CPUSA membership cards in our closets, many of us nevertheless have SOME sort of lib/left history that we’ve had to overcome. Each of us here has, in our own way, struggled with Lindsay’s “Am I a racist?” question. In trying to answer that question, each of us found our way to AmRen.
Robert Lindsay has too — and that alone makes him more informed than 99% of his socialistic bretheren. For this, I’m willing to cut him some slack. And I certainly sympathize with his having to live in a town that’s majority mestizo: that alone is enough to turn a person into a White Nationalist!
But jewamongyou is correct: just because two opposing groups are yelling at each other, that does not necessarily mean that the truth must lie in the middle. It might — or it might also be that ONE of those groups is right and the other is just plain WRONG!
Posted by The Incredible Shrinking White Man at 12:17 AM on July 12
I’ve never seen a single amren poster claim “that there really is no such thing as white racism.” They usually note, like Lindsay, that white prejudice is overstated and non-white bigotry is minimized.
Aside from that I’ll give Lindsay credit for being more honest on racial issues than just about every other leftist.
I read where he recently complained that he’s never been asked to write for amren. How about giving him a shot, Mr. Taylor?
Posted by Madison Grant at 1:40 AM on July 12
How about this? Make EVERY crime of one race against another race an automatic “Hate Crime”. Just guess would whine over that law?
Posted by Bandmo at 7:47 AM on July 12
‘I’ve never seen a single amren poster claim “that there really is no such thing as white racism.”’
I claim that. I’m a quick study. I learn from those at the top. Whites can’t be racist. Call me crazy, sue me, whatever. For all Practical-purposes, there is no such thing as WHITE racism. It’s impossible for whites to be racist. Whites have something, everyone else wants it, That’s ‘racism’. Whites can’t be racists. The power has it dead wrong. Dead and diametrically wrong. Heck, even most AmRen posters claim, and they seem quite fixed about it, that they are for doing what is really best for blacks. I could not care one bit (outside of the females) - I guess the secret is in thinking whites aren’t racist. I hate how AmRen sometimes admits to this however. Pulling their load in the white-guilt train? Pretending to be ‘fair’? Trying to appeal to the masses told every day and in every kind of way, whites and only whites are racist? AmRen subtly and not so subtly admits to white racism far too often for my taste. If only it were true.
To the poster who wrote, “Make EVERY crime of one race against another race an automatic “Hate Crime”.” That’s a most excellent idea but one unlikely to be implemented. You don’t think they are Really concerned about hate crimes do you?
Posted by I'm not a racist. . . at 11:38 AM on July 12
When you click on the link to Mr. Lindsay’s blog, you’ll see that he describes himself as an “Independent Left Journalist.” Given Mr. Lindsay’s views, I would think that many of his “Left” cohorts will surely kick him out of the Leftist clubhouse. Although I disagree with several of his statements and conclusion, on the whole it appears that Mr. Lindsay is someone whose eyes are beginning to open to the reality and double standards of race in the West. Welcome to our club, Mr. Lindsay.
Posted by Kevin at 12:02 PM on July 12
Is the fact that hispanics are counted as whites when they commit criminal acts contributing to the number of White hate crimes?…Like these guys, click on the picture and check the race…http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/wanted/
You have to wonder how a government could construct something like this with any motivation other than total hostility toward real white people. If this isn’t proof enough, then keep in mind that when a real white commits a hate crime against a government-designated white, then it is considered a white on hispanic hate crime - and when a goverment-designated white commits a hate crime against a black, it is a white-on-black hate crime!
Posted by HideouslyWhite at 12:02 PM on July 12
Good article. Remember that the people who proposed and passed “hate crime” laws wanted and intended them to be used ONLY against Whites, Men, or Christians. The intent has been realized, since “hate crime” laws are essentially NEVER used to protect Whites, Men, or Christians from true hate.
Posted by at 2:15 PM on July 12
The chief victim of hate crimes are Whites. The chief perpetrators of hate crimes are blacks. That is the truth. Though no one in authority or academia will admit it.
Posted by at 3:01 PM on July 12
A crime is a crime and ought to be dealt with according to blind justice - which by the way, doesn’t see skin color.
That the government keeps records of racial breakdowns indicates that we are not living in a color blind nation. That Federal law protects some racial and ethnic groups and not others is racist by definition. If the definition of racism is to be applied evenly, then we have to recognize that everyone is a racist. When anyone looks at someone different than them they notice it unless they are completely unobservant. Since being observant is a basic survival skill, learning to not notice things like skin color differences, facial features, etc., is nothing less than an illogical denial of blatant reality. And that will lead to dysfunction in the individual. EVERYONE reacts to these differences. People who react positively are just as racist as those who react negatively. And if you apply the Christian idea of “sinning in the heart” then we know that everyone is making a judgement in their mind and then deciding how to outwardly act. That can become a habitual reaction and seem natural. It is not. Such a thing is a trained response and must be trained in every generation. That is important to recognize because the indoctrination is going to have to be just like religious indoctrination that starts at early childhood and goes on an entire lifetime. And that is what we are facing in our society today.
We see the products of racism everyday. It is easiest to notice on televsion which seems to be propagandizing continually on differences. The typical one is the plethora of instances where a black man is paired with a white woman, usually a beautiful blonde, for the sake of the attention it attracts. The sponsors want ratings. Whether it is a morbid attraction or whether the viewer is enraptured by the “Ebony and Ivory” theme, a racial reaction is sought and gained. Moreover, if anyone recognizes race in positive or accepted according to PC manner, there seems to be no recognition that this too is racism.
Modern society, led by extreme liberals have over the past 40 years, turned the word racism into a label that can be used to manipulate and subjugate individuals and groups (especially whites as a group). The only difference between Hester Prim and those accused of racism today is a “Scarlet R.”
Toleration is what we are best served in learning. Toleration has its values. The world would not function without toleration and the lack of toleration is the root cause of the dangers we face today in the world. But racism and toleration are very different psychological positions. I tolerate people of all races, including my own - when I go out in the world to do my business. What I think of some people I see and deal with may be racist at times, but it is my right to think what I want to think and move my body away from people I don’t want to be near for any reason.
Until they can eventually make the entire country into a prison with forced intergration, just as the California prisons plan, the tactics of accusation and propaganda will dog us all our lives. England is an example of a society that seems to be quickly becoming a prison society. You can leave, but if you haven’t the means or a place to go, you are in the prison.
Posted by Whiteplight at 4:02 PM on July 12
There will always be people in this country that do not like anyone thats not their kind. And there will be incidents of crime that come out of this dislike. But these crimes will NEVER, EVER compare to the black on white crime in this country. No article, by some crazy diversity infected uber liberal can change that.
Posted by at 5:00 PM on July 12
Robert Lindsay is very fond of race-mixing and thinks it actually does whites some good. He’s more interested in keeping Hugo Chavez in power than doing anything positive for whites. He may have opened his eyes some, but he is not above telling huge whoppers about black intellectual ability. In a movement aching for some good news, it’s easy for a hard leftie like Robert Lindsay making some racial sense to be greeted with cheers; ultimately, such halfway-men are no real help at all, however.
Posted by at 10:42 PM on July 12
Hello there. As you all may have guessed, I have some extremely serious disagreements with the White nationalist movement. Nevertheless, one of the reasons I like to come here is because there is a lot of straight up real talk about race and ethnicity here, with a lot of truths, of the sort that one cannot obtain in our stifling society. It’s like a breath of fresh air to hear this folks telling it like it is.
Furthermore, White nationalists are making some very good points that need to be said, and they are the only ones saying this stuff, for the most part. There are a few elsewhere on the Right talking like this, but for the most part, this conversation is shut down. I think it’s sad that only WN’s have the nerve to bring this stuff up. We should be talking about this stuff all the time.
Anti-racism HAS gone too far, way, way, way too far. It’s almost as if the tables have been turned the world is inverted as Jobling suggests. My society is not filled with White racism. It’s full of paranoid non-Whites bashing White people (me) as the Ultimate Evil, whereas if I unleashed similar tirades on them, I might be down for a hate crime.
It’s true that moving to a Mestizo city has changed me. I’m ethnocentric for the first time ever. I wake up in the morning and thank God for making me White. We are not so bad after all, esp considering the alternatives. I like the way I look, I like my people, I like our culture and I like our history, in spite of all the bad. We have a right to be proud like every other races is, and enough with this apologetic self-abasement.
I lived in poor White town for 16 years and never got ripped off. I moved to a poor Latino town and got ripped off 6 times in a year. There was just a shooting 50 yards from my front door. There are differences between ethnic groups, genetic, cultural or otherwise, and anyone who can’t figure this out is a fool. Unlike WN’s, I could care less what makes one group act different from another. The fact is that they do. And that has real and powerful consequences all the way down the line.
I’m still a CPUSA member and I’ve not been thrown out. I’m a socialist for economic reasons, and I could care less about Cultural Marxism. The Left blew it by moving away from class struggle to fighting for the rights of a bunch of lumpens who aren’t even revolutionary anyway. Eastern Europe and Russia were better for Whites than Western Europe was. I got thrown out of a local cell for supporting social democracy (not Commie enough). So to say I’m moving to the Right is not quite correct. But the Left is just bonkers about race and anything connected to it, like immigration.
I also think race realism is compatible with Communism and socialism. Not sure how, but we can figure out a way.
Posted by Robert Lindsay at 3:01 AM on July 13
Robert Lindsay wrote in his comment:
I think it’s sad that only WN’s have the nerve to bring this stuff up. We should be talking about this stuff all the time.
I have all the confidence in the world in most of our people. I don’t consider it “sad” that only our people have “the nerve to bring this stuff up.” After all, if it’s (CofCC+AmRen) vs destiny itself, I don’t give destiny a very good chance. However, I do think it’s *unfortunate* that it’s only our people talking about these things.
In a sane society, it wouldn’t be just us that are racialists, or WNs, or RRs, or a combination thereof, it would be every corporate CEO, every corporate board of directors, every well-funded foundation, virtually every professor of a discipline in higher education, virtually every politician of significant consequence — they would all sound like Jared Taylor.
You figure China — is there any institution there called “Shanghai Poverty Law Center?” Or “defamation league,” or “Center for New Community,” or Ed Sebesta, or Tim Wise? No, these institutions and people wouldn’t exist in China because Chinese society is still sane about its purpose. Only in modern day white societies obsessed with equality and diversity could these figurative warts on the body of society sprout to begin with.
Posted by Question Diversity at 9:29 AM on July 13
Ahhh, the versatile Mestizo; when he’s a victim of crime, he’s a protected non-white. But if the same Mestizo commits a crime, he’s automatically considered White for stastical purposes of showing White crime is more prevalent, more directed against non-whites, and more “racist” in general.
Posted by at 9:58 AM on July 13
Like these guys, click on the picture and check the race.
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/wanted/
Posted by William Hope at 7:36 PM on July 11
Do you believe that one of the Blacks’ middle name is Hunsolo? I wonder of he’s got a brother ( by another father of course) whose name is Jabba or R2D2.
If they weren’t so dangerous, they’d be a source of amusement. Their idiotic buffoonery knows no bounds.
Posted by at 11:06 AM on July 13
Unless mr. Lindsay is ignorant he is a racist, albiet a cowardly one, and a possible mole for the radical left. Beware of the wolf in sheeps clothing. p.s. They would all sound like Jared Taylor? When did mr. Taylor ever advocate redistribution of wealth as Lindsay does? Again beware of whom you embrace.
Posted by THE OLD SAGE at 11:16 AM on July 13
“I’m still a CPUSA member and I’ve not been thrown out. I’m a socialist for economic reasons… I got thrown out of a local cell for supporting social democracy (not Commie enough).”
This is apparently a response to my earlier post. I remembered in broad strokes what Robert Lindsay had written about some CP membership conflict he’d recently had; and I apologize if I got the details wrong.
“I also think race realism is compatible with Communism and socialism.”
Well, they were/are in USSR and China. Of course, those are MONO-racial societies. And there is also a certain socialistic or syndicalist strain to some European nationalist groups like the BNP.
Personally, I think communism is a mistake under ANY circumstances — but I agree with Mr. Lindsay that the present-day Left’s mania for denying even the POSSIBILITY of racial differences is its most egregious characteristic. Like he says: Bonkers.
Now if only we could get the Ted Kennedys of the world to move to majority-Mexican towns, then they too would start feeling ethnocentrically white. Actually having to LIVE among the mestizo millions would get Kennedy-type liberals whistling a different tune on immigration BUT PRONTO!
Posted by The Incredible Shrinking White Man at 11:33 AM on July 13
Mr. Lindsay,
Thank you for your comment. For those of us like myself who have had to leave our old towns and neighborhoods due to third world colonization (hence my moniker) someone like you saying this is also “like a breath of fresh air”.
This reminds me of another article here by someone called Melinda Jelliby, who was also a leftist and made the point that you touched on briefly, that leftist social and economic prescriptions can never work in anything other than a white society. While being conservative I certainly disagree that they can work at all nevertheless it gives me hope that just maybe we can get out of this mess and get our countries back. If you people are talking about it then we might be at a tipping point.
I would like to suggest that the distinction between legal and illegal colonization be erased. When I hear a Lou Dobbs cover the illegal side comprehensively but then say that he would welcome tripling the current legal limit then I know that he and others like him (Lawrence Kudlow, WSJ, etc.) just do not get it.
Many whites like myself were ethnically cleansed out of our neighborhoods by LEGAL third world colonizers. Lest you think that my description is an exaggeration I would go ahead and tell you about the aggressive block-busting, the deliberate hate crimes, the refusal to sell houses to anyone but their own kind (the white realtor who sold my house told me about all sorts of stuff his guyanese counterparts were doing, which he himself couldn’t get away with). And I’d tell you that once back in 1993 when the cops came to break up one of their frequent loud parties my new Trinidadian neighbor said “Don’t worry. We get rid of the white people and then we do what we want!”. I guess he didn´t want to live in a multicultural neighborhood. He got his wish, and this is what were up against.
I hope you continue to follow up on your observations and try to get your fellow travellers to see the light, especially in the media. Some of course will never get it, being so deep in their white guilt psychosis. But at least they can be marginalized.
Thanks and good luck. for all of us.
Posted by Mike from not-Queens at 1:14 PM on July 13
“the people who proposed and passed “hate crime” laws wanted and intended them to be used ONLY against Whites, Men, or Christians. The intent has been realized, since “hate crime” laws are essentially NEVER used to protect Whites, Men, or Christians from true hate.
Posted by at 2:15 PM on July 12
Interesting point; however, men are not accused of hate crimes when they stalk, rape, torture, and/or murder women. Being female is not really a gender-protected category when it comes to violent crime. Race has to be involved, unless it is a non-white man who commits a crime against a white female, of course. But even the most hideous crimes by men against women are not adjudicated as hate crimes unless there is a racial or sexual orientation issue in the mix. Nor, for that matter, are women who kill men charged with a hate crime sheerly because of gender difference.
Psychological profiles indicate that most male serial killers who sadistically torture a woman to death hate women/females, but they don’t get an added hate crime charge.
Best regards.
Posted by at 4:22 PM on July 13
Greetings Robert Lindsay and welcome to our board! There is a great amount of diversity within Amren and, as much as most of us disagree with the tenets of Communism, there is no reason why a person can’t be Communist and a race-realist at the same time. It’s like being fond of gardening even though you’re also a Shreiner. Will people here scream at you for being Communist? Sure they will. They sometimes scream at me for being libertarian and they scream at each other about many issues but that doesn’t mean that, somehow, race-realism (or even white nationalism) dictates specific economic ideologies any more than it dictates whether you prefer Coke or Pepsi. The fact that some races disproportionally leach the system in an egalitarian society is an issue that Communists must tackle - but the same can be said for almost any ideology that believes in government programs. It’s all a matter of degree. All government programs have disparate impact (for better or worse) upon various groups.
Had you asked me, I would have advised you not to post on this board. The reason is, as I’m sure you’re well aware, that now you’ll be considered one of us in the eyes of the world. This association greatly diminishes any influence you might have on the greater leftist world. Now it matters little how much sense you make or how powerful your arguments - all they care about is that you are associated with Amren. Sad but true. Personally, I readily admit my association with Amren and use it to defend the organization. But then again, I’m not a famous author who would otherwise have a huge sphere of influence within the “enemy camp”. One can always hope that I’m wrong.
Thanks for answering my objection from my earlier post. I can read between the lines.
Posted by jewamongyou at 8:16 PM on July 13
Unfortunately, in a free society people get to call each other names…
While I can certainly see how calling people names might be rude, I fail to see how being allowed to do so is unfortunate.
Posted by BW Sam at 1:25 PM on July 14
Reply to 11:06 AM POSTER:
Thanks for those pictures. What’s up with all those brown-skinned Hispanics being labelled as “White Male”? If those guys are “White” I’m the emperor of Japan.
Posted by at 3:00 PM on July 14
“there is no reason why a person can’t be Communist and a race-realist at the same time.”
Communism, or communism, is based on egalitarianism. No group HATES genetics more than the communists. Communists also reject the law of non-contradiction- they think, in addition to existing in mind, contradictions can exist in in reality. If this were true, there could be no science…communists hate reality and science.
Posted by spy v. spy (class struggle) at 3:24 PM on July 14
The invention of hate crimes marked the first serious contamination of American law since its beginnings. Up until then, the conviction of a crime depended on what could be proven in a court of law, and standard punishment followed.
After the introduction of hate as an additional charge in a crime, unprovable prejudice was given separate standing in law, opening the doors of unspoken emotional enmity of all kinds, cast in all directions, and given the weight to extend punishment past the intent or purpose of the spirit of law.
In effect, the blindfold was ripped away from Lady Justice, and prosecution of law became less like a stable and fair process, and more like Nero’s mob-pleasing arena.
Posted by Gary at 3:32 PM on July 14
“Again beware of whom you embrace.”
Old Sage, many of us are quite aware of who Lindsay is. We will certainly take your advice to be careful. However, even if he is a leftist mole I can´t see what damage he can do at this point. We’re already outcasts to the MSM, the education establisment etc. Is he going to spy on us? Wé’re just having a conversation here. Is he going to infiltrate and rise high in whatever organization and implement his communist plan then? I can’t see how. I’d be willing to bet that, racial awareness aside, the huge majority of people in the WN movement have solid conservative views, or at least moderate ones. And we ain’t in the 1930s now, there’s a massive learning curve behind us on this and we’re not suddenly going to forget. Lindsay and his ilk are going nowhere with their philosophy.
Here’s the thing, though. The immediate and overwhelming threat to white nations now is the presence of large numbers of non-whites. We need to turn every white face towards that threat and gain as large a consensus as possible on this right now. Especially the formerly obstructionist. Of course there are longer term issues to be resolved, like teaching white children their true heritage or reorganizing our societal structures so that this won’t happen again (assuming we even get that far). But right now the house is on fire and we need as big a bucket brigade as we can. Don’t worry though. At this point we are all so hypersensative to betrayal that I’m sure someone will check to see if Lindsay’s bucket has water or gasoline in it.
Posted by Mike from not-Queens at 4:22 PM on July 14
Will people here scream at you for being Communist?
Out of curiosity I wonder what the poll results on Amren would be of those willing to live with Communism if the trade-off was that we would be all white.
Posted by Jimmy Stubble at 5:13 PM on July 14
“Hello there. As you all may have guessed, I have some extremely serious disagreements with the White nationalist movement. Nevertheless, one of the reasons I like to come here is because there is a lot of straight up real talk about race and ethnicity here, with a lot of truths, of the sort that one cannot obtain in our stifling society. It’s like a breath of fresh air to hear this folks telling it like it is.”
To R. Lindsay:
This is exactly why I visit these pages and post at times. It doesn’t mean I necessarily agree with most posts, or the White Nationalist premise of the site, but I have this odd visceral attachment to Freedom of Speech and am addicted to the intellectual stimulation of the free exchange of ideas — whether I agree with them or not.
Long live the internet — the American people’s current revolution. And thanks, Amren, for the forum.
Posted by at 7:36 PM on July 14
“Had you asked me, I would have advised you not to post on this board. The reason is, as I’m sure you’re well aware, that now you’ll be considered one of us in the eyes of the world. This association greatly diminishes any influence you might have on the greater leftist world. Now it matters little how much sense you make or how powerful your arguments - all they care about is that you are associated with Amren.”
A revolutionary thinker — by which I mean a person who refuses to merely parrot the contemporary script — has to have some spine. This country would not have been if not for countless revolutionaries of the spirit who risked their businesses, finances, comfort, and reputations. Be your own man, Mr. Lindsay, and exercise your right to freedom of speech while you still have it.
Posted by at 8:14 PM on July 14
I’m not a racist at all. I’m a realist. I know there really are racists out there of all sorts of colors, I’m just not one of them. What I am is observant. And the statistics don’t lie. You don’t have to be a racist to be a concerned citizen. And just because somebody calls you one doesn’t make you one. In fact, I think the person doing the namecalling should be held to a higher standard. They want to go after our first amendment rights? Then let’s hold the namecalling modern liberals who call everyone a racist that disagrees with them to that standard and penalize THEM FIRST with the special enhancements. We could fill up gulags with all the modern liberals in this country that engage in name calling and slandering as a knee jerk reaction to someone taking a contrary position to their ideology. I know I’m preaching to the choir here.
Posted by Unemployed WASP at 9:44 PM on July 14
Spyvsspy wrote:
“Communism, or communism, is based on egalitarianism. No group HATES genetics more than the communists. Communists also reject the law of non-contradiction- they think, in addition to existing in mind, contradictions can exist in in reality. If this were true, there could be no science…communists hate reality and science.”
Communism makes no sense and contradicts Human nature - the fact that I acknowledge this dictates that I am not a Communist and the same with you. We hold Mr. Linday to be mistaken in this - but he can still be a race realist. You can be a flat-Earther and be a race realist. You can be a Rastafarian and also be a race realist. We can’t all reach the truth in all matters all at one time. We should embrace people as they approach race realism - not reject them because they are not quite there yet or because they hold other beliefs we hold as false. We gently nudge them along, each of us according to our beliefs through logical, and polite, persuasion. First we worry about the race realism. Later we can debate economic philosophies.
Regarding those of you who are wary of Mr. Lindsay I say we’re better off erring on the side of being friendly and hospitable. There are no secrets here anyway; it’s a public forum.
Posted by jewamongyou at 11:28 PM on July 14
In the post here on this board Robert Lindsay wrote: “I also think race realism is compatible with Communism and socialism. Not sure how, but we can figure out a way.”
However, in a recent post on his blog he writes that people who use the term “racialism” (as well as “race realism” and “race realist”) are actually just trying to shroud their ‘racism’ with a polite sounding term. He writes: “Unfortunately, the term racialism has been taken over by White racists in an effort to cover up their racism with fake and nice-sounding words.”
Read the original post: http://robertlindsay.blogspot.com/2008/06/racialism-versus-racism.html
Do you care to defend your recent change-of-mind Mr. Lindsay?
+ Zsidozas (http://zsidozas.wordpress.com/)
Posted by Z at 6:37 AM on July 16
I can use race realism on here, because on here people understand the fine gradations between race realism and White nationalism. It’s true still that a lot of WNs still use race realism and racialism to mean just flat out racism. Folks on here recognize that race realists are not necessarily WNs. All WNs are race realists, but not necessarily vice versa.
On my blog, most people just think that racialism and race realism are synonymous with white nationalism and racism. They don’t get it. That’s why I was leery of using the word on the blog. Unfortunately, a lot of WNs have muddied the waters by calling their WN, and yes, racism, “race realism”, “racialism” and other nice sounding terms in order to moderate their message and make it more palatable.
So I can use terms on here intelligently, but I can’t do that on the blog. Race realism just means you recognize some differences between races outside of obvious stuff like skin. Many such folks are racists, but others are not. Your average Joe Blow can’t figure that out though. I know a lot of people who think that White nationalism is the same as neo-Nazis. Obviously not the case.
Posted by Robert Lindsay at 2:33 PM on July 16
Why do we jump so eagerly into the snares of the other side by arguing endlessly their favorite diversionary topics, “racism” and “hate?”
My favorite topic is the highly disproportionate rate at which blacks commit violent crimes against whites:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/cvus/current/cv0542.pdf
Does it matter whether or not these criminals hated us? Do bones mend faster, and the dead come back to life, if no racial epithets were hurled?
Posted by H. Dumpty at 11:27 PM on July 18
At the Dept. of Justice link I gave,
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/cvus/current/cv0542.pdf
it’s seen that in 2005 over 37,000 white women were raped by black men, and virtually ZERO black women were raped by white men!
I think this makes my point that if there is residual white racism toward blacks, it’s inconsequential compared to the harm being done to whites by blacks (and it’s also of no consequence whether or not that harm is motivated by “racism.” Harm is harm).
These two points should always be made, since the larger white society believes the opposite in both cases.
Posted by H. Dumpty at 12:07 AM on July 19
“in 2005 over 37,000 white women were raped by black men, and virtually ZERO black women were raped by white men!” (from my last post).
P.S. And didn’t we hear plenty about that ZERO black woman who was (not) raped, in the Duke Lacrosse Team case! And almost nothing about the 37,000 white women who WERE raped, by blacks!
Posted by H. Dumpty at 10:58 PM on July 19
To Robert Lindsay:
Robert, you say that you’ve been brought to realism about race from your experience living in the multicultural society that arrived at your doorstep.
In all friendliness, I’d like to suggest that you might be similarly disabused of your communist ideas if you were given the opportunity to live for awhile in a communist country!
Posted by H. Dumpty at 11:15 PM on July 19
Many of us have been disabused of our early racial idealism, which was indoctrinated in us by the schools and media, via a harsh dose of reality when we got out into the real world. A great many of us have learned about blacks directly and the hard way — by living and working among them. If I am “prejudiced” today [tho I don’t think so], no one taught me except blacks themselves. Like most whites, I learned about blacks from blacks. I did not learn prejudice from my parents who were very naive, having grown up before the mandatory integration of the races that was forced on us by government. (But of course, that hard-earned knowledge of mine, coming from experience, is not true “prejudice”.)
As Mr. Dumpty very sensibly says, Lindsay was educated about multiculturalism only by living in it. He tried it, he didn’t like it. And I suspect that he (Lindsay) would learn the same about Communism. It is one thing to have an abstract, idealistic mental construct in ones’ mind of a rosy utopian society in which everyone lives happily together, but quite another thing to have to live in it for any length of time with people who are taking advantage of you or getting on your nerves.
And as Dedalus has often pointed out, how can people love and get along with members of unrelated races when many of them can’t even get along with their own families? It’s always easy to love someone, in abstract, when they’re far away. But not when you have their their music, their cooking smells, and their arguments coming in your window. (Not to speak of their anti-social habits and their crime.) That’s why Swedes were so enamored of Africans, while white Southerners knew better.
Posted by browser at 4:05 PM on July 20
I don’t support Communism for the US, and the word doesn’t mean that much anymore anyway. My party supports the Chinese Communist Party, and they have injected a lot of capitalism into their system. I support it for some 3rd World places though.
I support some kind of socialism in the US. We already have quite a bit of socialism, but we need a lot more. The future of mankind is going to be some kind of socialism. You can see how freemarket capitalism has devastated the US economy these days. Just open up a newspaper. With more socialism in our system, this horrible crisis would not have unfolded the way it did.
Posted by Robert Lindsay at 1:30 AM on July 21
To Robert Lindsay:
I’m told Europe has more of a mixture of socialism and capitalism than we do, and is faring better economically, so possibly you are correct. But I’ve also heard entrepreneurs say they feel stifled in Europe.
Didn’t lack of regulation also have a lot to do with what has happened to us economically in recent years?
I think it’s plain that humans’ main impulse is to work for themselves and their families, rather than for the common good, so I’m leery of arrangements like socialism or monopoly that dispense with competition and rely on people’s good will to get things done competently.
Of course competition can run amok too—I’ve read that before the Japanese were interred during WWII, Japanese farmers in California were outworking the Anglo farmers and gaining much of their market share. Lots of good things—like competition—don’t work nearly as well when cultures and races get mixed up together. (I imagine the Anglo farmers were hardly lazy lay-abouts, so why should their reasonable mixture of hard work and relaxation be allowed to be overthrown by introducing the beehive habits of a foreign race and culture?)
Posted by H. Dumpty at 11:58 AM on July 21
“I think it’s plain that humans’ main impulse is to work for themselves and their families, rather than for the common good” —- H. Dumpty
………………………..
That is why socialism can be made to work in small nations where the people are all closely related and possess a strong sense of common identity. They are simply one large family. They look after one another, just as a family would. Denmark, for example. After all, what is a nation but an enlarged family? And a race is a further enlargement of a nation.
But in a pluralistic “empire” [the true word] such as the USA has become, with its broad assortment of races and peoples and its official discouragement of any sort of ethnic/racial identity (for whites anyway), it becomes quite another story. Some groups contribute disproportionately while others consume disproportionately. And they all have nothing in common with one another except the accident of being on the same continent. It doesn’t work. What’s loot for one group becomes sacrifice for another.
[I speak of “nation” here in the true sense of the word — a culturally and genetically related group of people — not as G.Bush and his neocons like to misuse it. A “proposition nation” is utter nonsense.]
Posted by ghw at 10:50 PM on July 22