Fair Enough?
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Jonathan Kaufman, Wall Street Journal, June 14, 2008
Stan Sheyn, a white student who attends community college in this working-class Detroit suburb, supports Barack Obama for president. But he has no time for what he calls “double standards and propagation of victim mentality.”
“The fact that a black man can run for the position of the President of the United States of America only corroborates that there is enough opportunity and equality for great things like that to happen,” he says. “And that there is no need to create special advantages for any demographic group.”
{snip}
Few issues have been as incendiary in the workplace and on college campuses as affirmative action—in large part because so many blacks and whites have been personally affected by affirmative action, in ways both good and bad.
Now, Sen. Obama’s rise is prompting some whites to ask—and some blacks to fear—the question: Does America still need affirmative action, given that an African-American has made it to the top of American politics?
{snip}
The issue of affirmative action is likely to dog Sen. Obama on the campaign trail as he seeks to win over white blue-collar voters in battleground states like Michigan. For many of these voters, affirmative action has been divisive since the 1970s. Ward Connerly, a prominent affirmative-action opponent, is seeking to place anti-affirmative action referendums on the ballot in Arizona, Nebraska and Colorado. Voters would be asked to ban “preferential treatment” of women and minorities in state university admissions, the filling of state-funded jobs and awarding of state contracts.
Favoring the Middle Class
{snip}
More than half of blacks—57%—say the country should make “every effort to improve the position of blacks and minorities, even if it means giving preferential treatment,” according to a poll conducted last year by the Pew Research Center, a non-partisan Washington think tank that studies social attitudes. Just 27% of whites agree with that view. The same poll shows that nearly half of whites—48%—believe the U.S. has “gone too far in pushing equal rights in this country.” Far fewer African Americans—27%—agree.
{snip}
Sen. Obama’s success has also stirred an uncomfortable debate within the black community over who has reaped the gains of affirmative action. Some argue the policies skew toward middle-class blacks instead of poor blacks, and have favored too many individuals like Sen. Obama—people with a biracial background or the children of African and Caribbean immigrants, as opposed to blacks born in the U.S.
{snip}
Sen. Obama’s newfound prominence has also prompted some successful blacks to wonder whether his achievements, and theirs, mean affirmative action should be modified to help poor and working-class whites.
{snip}
Early Challenges
Affirmative action began in 1961, when President Kennedy issued an executive order declaring that federal contractors should “take affirmative action” to integrate their work forces.
The initiative broadened to include policies that favored women and minorities in hiring and promotion at work and in college admissions, the goal being to overcome past discrimination.
Many whites charged that this amounted to “reverse discrimination.” In the landmark Bakke case of 1978, the Supreme Court narrowed the definition of affirmative action, declaring unconstitutional the use of some rigid quota systems. But it upheld the principle of affirmative action.
In 2003, a more-conservative Supreme Court again upheld the principle of affirmative action, but narrowed the interpretation still further, adding in a majority opinion, “We expect that 25 years from now, the use of racial preferences will no longer be necessary.” Opponents of affirmative action recently filed another suit challenging affirmative action in Texas.
{snip}
Affirmative action policies have helped blacks gain access to large corporations and top universities, studies have shown, and the presence of blacks in these places has encouraged others to follow. The number of African Americans at the country’s top 50 colleges and universities has doubled in recent decades, according to Harry Holzer, a Georgetown University economist. Women have benefited, too, especially in the 1970s and 1980s, when they began breaking into traditionally male-dominated fields.
A Leg Up for Whites
Michigan’s Macomb County is home to many of the fabled “Reagan Democrats,” the conservative working-class whites who left the Democratic Party largely over social issues including race in the 1980s. Here, life has been changed by affirmative action and the rise of the black middle class. In the past five years, the African-American population has doubled to about 6% from about 3%, in part as blacks have left Detroit for safer suburbs with better schools.
Such changes make some whites here wonder why affirmative action is needed at all. “If blacks are living in the same houses that I am living in, and they can afford the same things I can afford, why shouldn’t I have the same breaks as they do?” says Tony Licata, a professional photographer in Macomb County who is white and says he is leaning toward voting for Sen. McCain.
{snip}
“I have been a supporter of affirmative action, but it needs to be refocused—other groups need to be included,” says Marceia Lugo, a divorced white mother of three whose mother and ex-husband have left Michigan to look for work. Ms. Lugo says she backed Sen. Clinton but will now vote for Sen. Obama. “I am not black, so I don’t know those issues. But I have been poor, and I have had to struggle, so I should get special treatment.”
Wooed by Elite Colleges
A half-hour drive from Warren lies Southfield, Mich., a leafy, integrated middle-class and upper-middle-class suburb that is a testament to the impact of affirmative action. {snip}
Many blacks here don’t want to lose the boost that they say affirmative action gives them. Stephen Kemp, a successful black funeral director in Southfield, sends his son to a $24,000-a-year private high school. His son, a junior, has been receiving letters from elite colleges wooing him to apply. “When they look at his application they see he is an African-American male—he has so much opportunity,” says Mr. Kemp, who himself attended the University of Michigan. “Brown called him yesterday.”
Mr. Kemp thinks it is fine that his son gets special attention, because diversity on campus benefits whites as well as blacks. “If you are getting a true education, that has to reflect all kinds of people,” he says.
{snip}
Email Jonathan Kaufman at jonathan.kaufman@wsj.com.
(Posted on June 18, 2008)
Comments
“If you are getting a true education, that has to reflect all kinds of people,”
That’s absolutely completely bogus, in that the only people being excluded are whites. They should ask how well Jared Taylor is received on Campus. Any calls for ‘diversity’ that don’t ask to hear what white special interest groups on campus also have to say, isn’t a call for more diversity at all.
By the way, the term ‘reverse racism’, which admittedly is in quotes in the article, is both offensive and demeaning to whites.
Posted by at 5:26 PM on June 18
Blacks in favor of racial discrimination, how ironic! Then they shouldn’t be allowed to have their cake and eat it too. Whites should be allowed to have white only schools.
Posted by Robert at 6:25 PM on June 18
More than half of blacks—57%—say the country should make “every effort to improve the position of blacks and minorities, even if it means giving preferential treatment,” according to a poll conducted last year by the Pew Research Center, a non-partisan Washington think tank that studies social attitudes. Just 27% of whites agree with that view.
And just who are these White idiots? Not even one White should be agreeing with a policy which slights them in a democratic society.
Posted by Kay at 6:45 PM on June 18
I would like to see one example of how having a multiracial university where non-whites are uniformly under-qualified has ever benefited any white student. There are none. Affirmative action for minorities benefits only minorities and directly harms non-minorities for this is a zero sum game.
In today’s balkanized America it makes sense for recognized beneficiaries of affirmative action to support a politician who promises them more of the same. Thus, it makes perfect sense for the black father of the son who is receiving multiple offers from multiple universities to vote for Obama and for more affirmative action. It is, however, pure self delusion for him to believe, if he does, that this will help strengthen US universities.
It does not make any sense for those who will be harmed by such policies to support such a politician. Any white who votes for Obama is a fool and deserves what he/she will get. In this balkanized world which the US has become, the very notion of the common good has lost any meaning it once had. In fact it no longer is a valid political concept. This is very unfortunate for pure democracy which encourages factionalism is a sure recipe for anarchy and ultimately tyranny.
Posted by at 6:47 PM on June 18
“If you are getting a true education, that has to reflect all kinds of people,” he says.
_____ ________ __________ _______
Really? Where does it say that a “true education” HAS to include exposure to a bunch of people who don’t really belong in college?
Posted by at 7:00 PM on June 18
The usual nonsense and sloppy thought are on full display here. Stan Sheyn, for instance, seems to know exactly nothing about the actual positions of B. Hussein Obama, whom he supports. B. Hussein Obama has plenty of time for “double standards and propagation of victim mentality,” as does Mrs. B. Hussein Obama.
The poll the article mentions is flawed in the typical ways:
“The same poll shows that nearly half of whites—48%—believe the U.S. has “gone too far in pushing equal rights in this country.” Far fewer African Americans—27%—agree.”
What on earth are “equal rights” if they amount to privileges granted to blacks with respect to things—education, jobs, money—which aren’t within the province of “rights” at all? Who says anyone has a “right” to a college education or a job? The question the poll asks is absurd on its face.
Finally, the ordinary, self-serving hypocrisy of blacks is exemplified by Mr. Kemp:
“Mr. Kemp thinks it is fine that his son gets special attention, because diversity on campus benefits whites as well as blacks. “If you are getting a true education, that has to reflect all kinds of people,” he says.”
Really? How will Mr. Kemp’s son, almost certainly measurably much less intelligent and qualified than the whites among whom he’ll sit in some college class, benefit those white students? In what sense will those students fail to obtain “a true education” minus the presence of coddled, affirmative action blacks? Does Mr. Kemp’s son emit some kind of occult power which enables nearby whites to understand ancient Greek, particle physics or Sumerian history more deeply than they’d otherwise be able to do?
Of course his son’s white classmates *will,* if they’re paying attention, receive at least some rudiments of a “true” education: they’ll appreciate the intellectual deficits and laziness of blacks and the corruption of the regime which forces them on white society in a more thorough manner than is usually evident in the TV shows which comprise a great deal of too many students’ pre-university education. They’re not like the ones on MTV, kids.
Posted by Cassiodorus at 7:48 PM on June 18
How does it feel to the know the only way you got a job or ‘equal rights’ was through guilt and intimidation, rather than standing alone on your own merits?
Mission Accomplished, discrimination is now dead against blacks. It is now time to end discrimination against whites - No More Affirmative Action.
Posted by Trent at 7:59 PM on June 18
So “diversity on campus benefits whites as well as blacks” does it. Show me any study that supports this premise upon which the theory of affirmative action has been constructed.
Tell me, do whites benefit more by having classes full of intellectually slower students simply because these students are primarily African - American; or, would the mental stimulation be greater if the student were, say, a Korean who blew the top out of the college boards?
What is the other side of “Affirmative Action”? How about “Negative Reaction” for every undeserving student who takes a seat at an elite university a more intellectually superior student has been DENIED admittance. This is the message that we want to send our kids? Work hard little Charlie so that you can beat all the white kids to Harvard - but you’ve got to realize that the African - Americans will get in with scores about 80% of what will be required of you. This is America? One of the most important factors in getting a college education is the color of your skin?
Moreover, if, African - Americans could compete across the board intellectually,affirmative action would have never been created! As JFK originally conceived it, affirmative action was to insure that EQUALLY QUALIFIED individuals would not be denied employment based upon race. Kennedy never said, and he certainly didn’t mean, that governmental agencies MUST hire totally unqualified personal simply because they are black!
The bottom line is this. Africans, now African - Americans,as a race has never been able to stand on its own. And take affirmative action away and in three generations all of these middle class African - Americans, that the egg head professors point to with such pride, would once again return to the very bottom of the economic life scale. With respect to African - Americans, they will NEVER want to repeal Affirmative Action, NEVER!
MoMo
Posted by MoMo at 8:26 PM on June 18
“Does America still need affirmative action, given that an African-American has made it to the top of American politics?”
What does a mulatto, who looks black, running for president have to do with blacks in general? The answer, of course, is nothing, because he isn’t representative of blacks. He’s half-white who had a white mother who drove him like a slave to learn, and because of that and his white heritage he was able to learn on an average white level. This man, if he were white, would garner no more than a yawn in reading of his intellectual ability and his potential.
A half-black in the running for the presidency has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that the average black I.Q. is 85, which means the vast majority can’t compete in a first world society above a laborer’s level, so it therefore doesn’t change the fact that blacks will continue to perform on a sub-standard level, and they will still continue to fail, even if 100 blacks were in the running for the presidency, and without AA they will continue to fail in far greater numbers.
And, speaking of AA, it was an abomination to begin with that gave away slots at colleges, jobs, grades, and accreditation, without the recipient having to qualify for anything, at the expense of discriminating against qualified whites.
The only reason the leftist elites felt we “needed” AA is because they knew blacks would riot and civil war II would be in full swing if they had to earn their way as everybody else has to do.
So do we need AA now that a mulatto who looks black is running for pres? Considering that his running has absolutely nothing to do with blacks in general, why would the question even be asked?
But, what would I do, if it were up to me? Well, we either give them AA or they’ll give the country riots. Personally, I prefer riots, so we can get the matter settled once and for all, but I’m in the vast minority.
Posted by Robert Kelly at 8:27 PM on June 18
“Michigan’s Macomb County is home to many of the fabled ‘Reagan Democrats,’ the conservative working-class whites who left the Democratic Party largely over social issues including race in the 1980s. Here, life has been changed by affirmative action and the rise of the black middle class. In the past five years, the African-American population has doubled to about 6% from about 3%, in part as blacks have left Detroit for safer suburbs with better schools.”
How utterly laughable and wretchedly ignorant a statement, considering what just happened in the “wilding” attacks last week in Mount Clemens. Did the Wall Street Journal report on those and Comrade Sheriff Hackel’s anti-white remarks regarding them, as did The Detroit Spartan Spectator and AR through it? See this AR News link:
http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2008/06/hunting_season.php
My guess is that they did not, or they would not have printed this pro-affirmative action rubbish!
After all, putting two and two together it is arguable that one of the ways life has been changed in Macomb County Michigan by affirmative action and the doubling of the black population, is increased black on white mob violence. Along with it, is of course the need of white “officials” like Comrade Sheriff Hackel to denigrate whites lawful viability against racial violence, to affirmatively accommodate the increased black presence and its “enrichments.”
I lived in Macomb County for over seven years and worked in a civilian support role for local law enforcement the entire time. In fact, I lived on 19 mile between Hayes and Garfield in Clinton Township which is about 10 minutes from the Macomb Sheriff’s Department and County Jail complex in Mount Clemens. During that period, I had the misfortune to watch decent areas become more and more rich in Technicolor ebony; along with it came the increases in crime that one would expect, thus hearing of last weeks “wilding” reports is no surprise. It is simply something that was once restricted to the waterfront area of Detroit and other idiot suburbanite “tourist” spots, that now whites do not have to travel 20 to 30 minutes to enjoy.
I could ask: ‘are not the “strengths” of diversity through “joyous” affirmative action grand,’ but I won’t.
It is enough to simply and sadly note, God help us all!
Posted by John PM at 8:32 PM on June 18
Obama wil appease some whites by saying he’s against affirmative action. But, what will it matter, with his Marxist thought processes and his Marxist actions to be acted out?
Posted by at 8:50 PM on June 18
>>>Some argue the policies skew toward middle-class blacks instead of poor blacks, and have favored too many individuals like Sen. Obama—people with a biracial background or the children of African and Caribbean immigrants, as opposed to blacks born in the U.S.
This is irksome to me…I know of one african refugee who is a professional student. He gets one doctorate after another and will most likely the rest of his life on our nickel. In his country it would almost be impossible to get one degree, but here he can do it for years and receive all sorts of perks due to his race.
This is also the case for the countless immigrants, legal and illegal, who we have funded into business. We offer very little to our own people or children in the way of health care, education, business assistance and retirement but allow our government to waste billions of dollars to assure these things to groups with which we have no shared history, obligation, and culture. Or in some cases,which simply hate us and will take what they can and do what they can to contribute to our downfall.
Most of today’s native born American children will find themselves beholden to the offspring of today’s immigrant’s for their survival……Sad………
Posted by James at 9:17 PM on June 18
The ultimate “achievement” of “affirmative action” is coming”: Obama.
Posted by A Reader at 9:53 PM on June 18
These blacks are ” Marxist, inferior parasites “; that is the philosphy of their answer. They know it but will never admit to it ; actions speak louder than words.
Posted by Michigan Patriot at 11:13 PM on June 18
There just doesn’t seem to be any reason to try college anymore. Not only are most American universities full of anti-white liberal professors who try to brainwash white students into shame and self-hatred, but now whites are having a hard time even trying to get in at all.
Could someone please explain how this type of diversity “benefits” white people?
Posted by at 11:38 PM on June 18
Affirmative action has been the law for the greater part of my working life. I left the trades because too many good jobs were off limits for White men. AA is not controversial, it is not divisive, it is simply tyranny. Not one White liberal ever willingly gives up THEIR job, THEIR kid’s opportunity. They use AA as a weapon against their class enemy, the productive White working man. Dig out your copy of 1984 and re-read Goldstein’s explanation of society. The new, subversive class (liberals) use the underclass (Blacks and Hispanics) to attack their rivals (us, the productive classes). AA cannot be forgiven, no White should ever excuse it. It is based on the idea of collective, inherited guilt, and on the aristocratic principle that White liberals are not bound by the rules they have forced on us. No compromise with treason.
Posted by Schoolteacher at 12:22 AM on June 19
I’ve been out of work for over 3 years due to outsourcing and “diversity.” (I happen to be white.)
Posted by at 1:09 AM on June 19
“Diversity” benefits whites in roughly that same way cigarettes benefit the lungs! I have asked this question again and again (what is this so-called benefit or strength “Diversity brings?)of average Joes and intellectuals alike…I’m still waiting for an answer of course.
Posted by Hank at 1:18 AM on June 19
I come from a genuinely poor (white) family.
No affirmative action recipient will feel what I felt when I was offered _ purely on academic merit!! - a coveted 5 year fellowship at a top rated department at an ivy university.
One effect of AA is that talented blacks who would be where they are WITHOUT extra points are mistaken for AA recipients.
I suspect such blacks are opposed to AA.
Meanwhile, many AA minorities at elite schools feel alienated and learn little.
Ironically, most AA students are middle class, are vastly more privileged than I was, their soly excuse for being intellectually inferior is “ubiquitous racism,” a belief which cements their ideology of resentment, but also makes them schizophrenic:
A brutally racist society would not divert billions in scarce resources to a despised minority.
The strangest thing about AA is what is never said, but which should be repeted again and again until people get it:
AA WAS, HOWEVER MISGUIDED, AN ACT OF BREATHAKING GENEROSITY AND SELF-SACRIFICE ON THE PART OF THE WHITE COMMUNITY AS A WHOLE.
The fact that blacks like Micelle Obama do not say this loud and clear makes me wonder whether they are insane, stupid, or just con men (i.e. never give a sucker an even break).
Posted by elitist at 3:11 AM on June 19
Aren’t blacks the least bit embarrassed about requiring special needs and consideration to compete evenly with everyone else? No other race requires so much care just to get along. Why?
Posted by Cliff Yablonski at 7:52 AM on June 19
“Does America still need affirmative action, given that an African-American has made it to the top of American politics?”
Yes, it’s time to ask the question. It was time to ask the question 40 years ago.
The answer is NO now, and NO 40 years ago.
Posted by at 10:48 AM on June 19
They ended affirmative action here in California right before whites became a minority. Didn’t want us to get any of the handouts they have enjoyed for decades.
Posted by Unemployed WASP at 11:42 AM on June 19
End it; don’t mend it.
Affirmative action is a litmus test issue like no other. Any white politician who supports it, or who gives the line that affirmative action “was once needed but no longer,” deserves no sympathy and certainly no votes.
Posted by Carl at 2:14 PM on June 19
“Mr. Kemp thinks it is fine that his son gets special attention, because diversity on campus benefits whites as well as blacks…”
Why doesn’t he explain that to the families of those beautiful white co-eds who were raped and murdered by diversity? There are some motivated and bright blacks who will make it on their own merits but, as soon as you start importing “youths” into higher education primarily because they’re black, things get much more dangerous for whites in those institutions. There is no benefit for them. Only danger and harassment.
Posted by jewamongyou at 4:01 PM on June 19
Remember when affirmative action was first started?
It was to be a “temporary” solution to make up for past discrimination.
There is nothing temporary about it anymore. In fact you are now considered “racist” if you oppose it.
Posted by Dennis at 4:19 PM on June 19
School teacher, very insightfull remarks and true. As the Central Government becomes larger and larger, because of AA, and the massive numbers of Federal employees who benefit by it, the more freedom truly productive Americans will lose. I read somewhere,the frightening statistic, that fully half of the employed population of the U.S. is employed by the government, which to me means controled by the government.
Posted by Bobby at 5:18 PM on June 19
“In 2003, a more-conservative Supreme Court again upheld the principle of affirmative action, but narrowed the interpretation still further, adding in a majority opinion, ‘We expect that 25 years from now, the use of racial preferences will no longer be necessary.’”
Twenty-five years from now (actually 20 years from now as of 2008) is when white Americans will be an endangered, small minority in their own land so, of course, that is when the government will end perks to minorities!
It’s all part of the plan.
Posted by at 7:50 PM on June 19
Elitist wrote:
“The strangest thing about AA is what is never said, but which should be repeated again and again until people get it:
AA WAS, HOWEVER MISGUIDED, AN ACT OF BREATHAKING GENEROSITY AND SELF-SACRIFICE ON THE PART OF THE WHITE COMMUNITY AS A WHOLE.”
Yes and no. The people who gave us affirmative action - upper crust white liberals of both parties — did not mean for their kids to suffer the consequences. Young Danforth and precious Madison must not lose jobs in Wall Street or slots in the Ivy leagues to lesser qualified blacks. That will not do.
Let your poor family — and my working class family — lose jobs and slots in university to lesser qualified blacks. Then let’s call the son of Salvatore the janitor and the daughter of Wynona the waitress racists when the complain.
Posted by Marcano is the Real Greatest at 8:17 PM on June 19
Them kennedys were something else. The 27% of whites for AA are probably well off and any help they get doesn,t affect them. It affects mostly poor whites and working class whites the most, but it also causes harm to a lot of whites trying to get into college. Theres only so many openings available. Probably any AA that shoud be going on now should be for poor and for people in the top 10% of their high school class. Some states are using lottery profits to send these kids to school. Good idea. I was in the top 5%of my high school but had no money for school. Worked in factorys my whole life and probably burnt out half way through. I feel bitter and cheated. Did manage to get 1 year of college while working 6days a week 9hr days. Got all A,s and 1 B and on the national honor society. Big deal college should be available to all who can do it for any kind of equality. Yes i,m white.
Posted by at 9:01 PM on June 19
to elitist: Michelle Obama is just stupid(if you doubt it, read her Princeton “thesis”}. You are quite right about the main recipients of AA being middle class blacks. However, there are also quite a few upper class black who are also major beneficiaries. I have an old acquaintance who is a private practice anesthesiologist married to an African American woman who is a surgeon working for Kaiser as a urologist. There combined yearly income is around $800,000. They have two daughters who look completely black. They will benefit for the rest of their lives because they are “black”(actually mulatto); their parents will never have to spend a penny for their education at ivy league universities and they will obtain choice positions in any sector that they wish to enter. Whenever I think of AA, I think of these two girls. Their example shows as clearly as is possible that AA has nothing to do with justice and everything to do with a racial spoils system designed to harm whites.
Posted by at 9:44 PM on June 19
“Mr. Kemp thinks it is fine that his son gets special attention, because diversity on campus benefits whites as well as blacks.”
Yup- it helps to keep the grade curve strong.
Posted by Student at 1:59 PM on June 20
AA should be limited to qualified poor people. Whites are probably a larger percentage of poor people in this country. They started the so called war on poverty when they went to appalacia. Lots of whites there. The war on poverty is another lost war in Americas list of lost wars. AA has been going on my whole working life. How many generations have to suffer through this. It has served its purpose and is time to end it in my opinion. Thank you AMREN for keeping everybody informed.
Posted by at 1:33 PM on June 23