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Egalitarian Orthodoxy: “Noble Fiction”—Or Noxious Poison?

AR Articles on Race and Intelligence
A King Among Men (Apr. 2003)
The Global Bell Curve (Dec. 2002)
The Definitive Word on Intelligence (Sep. 1998)
Race and Intelligence: The Evidence (Nov. 1992)
Research That Was to Prove Jensen Wrong Proves Him Right (Mar. 1994)
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Jared Taylor, VDARE.com, June 24, 2008

There has been a fuss over at Takimag.com that reminds me of what a Victorian lady said when she first heard of Darwin’s theory of evolution: “Let us hope that it is not true, but if it is, let us pray that it will not become generally known”. The fuss, needless to say, was about race differences in IQ, and the issue was not so much whether the differences are real but whether we should even talk about them.

For example, John Zmirak—who also contributes to VDARE.COM—was worried that, if racial differences were ever accepted, people might be sent to camps. Caleb Stegall claimed there were certain truths any regime “must suppress”; , and suggested that an official endorsement of racial equality may be a “necessary noble fiction.”

Really? I can’t think of a single truth it should be our government’s job to suppress. And it is precisely because the question of race in America is so vexed that we need candor rather than evasions.

Those who insist, against the evidence, that all races are equal in every way may be well meaning. But the “noble fiction” does not smooth race relations; it poisons them.

For the record, I will make my own position clear: I think a substantial genetic contribution to racial differences in average IQ is about as close to proven as anything ever is in the social sciences.

Some day, as James Watson pointed out in a moment of candor he now regrets, the genes that interact to raise or lower intelligence will be identified, and the question will be laid to merciful rest. When that day comes, would you be prepared to bet the next dozen house payments that those genes will be found to be equally distributed in all races?

I didn’t think so. We should be preparing for what is almost certain to be true—rather than clinging to something almost certain to be false.

These folks at Takimag tell us we should cling to what may be false because the truth would be cruel. Let me improve on their arguments for them.

Any discussion of IQ is a crushing insult to blacks, and if differences were widely acknowledged it would drive them to despair or even violence.

Mean-spirited whites will use IQ data as an excuse to hurt blacks.

Racial differences have no legitimate implications for public policy, so any investigation will yield only useless, harmful knowledge.

Wrong on all counts.

Let’s look at (1). Surely blacks will be furious if we talk about race differences, won’t they? All whites think so, so they never talk to blacks about IQ—and so they don’t know the answer to that question. They just think they do.

I will never forget the first time I gave a lecture on race and IQ to a mixed audience of blacks and whites. As I was being introduced, I looked out over that university crowd and I wasn’t sure my legs would carry me to the podium. My heart sank to think how wounded the blacks would be by what I was about to say. I swallowed hard and gave my talk.

When I finished, a black man shot up, shouted about “racism,” and stormed out. Another did the same. The rest of the black students kept me on my feet for an hour answering questions.

The whites asked technical questions about intelligence testing, but the blacks asked meaty questions about what IQ means for people and for society

Afterwards, at half dozen blacks came up to speak to me. They smiled, complimented me on my talk, shook my hand warmly, and wanted to talk for as long as I was willing.

The same pattern repeated itself on other campuses: an outburst or two followed by keen interest and genuine cordiality.

After several lectures, I figured out what was happening. First, the subject of race and IQ is taboo, and blacks are just as curious about taboos as whites. I know a lot about the subject, and do not patronize people. I give a rattling good talk about race and IQ, and people appreciate a good talk.

Second, blacks are not stupid. They see the miserable state of Africa and Haiti. They see how so many blacks fail despite the opportunities given them. Racial differences in intelligence are as plausible to them as to anyone else as an explanation for the world as they find it.

But what about the warmth and cordiality? I believe it was because many of those students felt that for the first time in their lives they had had a totally honest conversation about race with a white man. Maybe it was their first totally honest conversation about anything with a white man. I think they appreciated deeply being spoken to like adults rather than children.

I suspect most blacks are no more afraid of race differences in IQ than whites are afraid of the possibility that Chinese and Japanese are smarter than they are. For years, at heavily-Asian schools like Berkeley and UCLA, the rule for whites has been to see how many Asians are in a science course before they enroll. Does the possibility that Asians are smarter than they are reduce whites to hopelessness and misery? Not at all, though sometimes it reduces them to
psychology or English.

Let us not forget that until perhaps 60 years ago, almost all Americans took it for granted that blacks were not as smart as whites. Did blacks take drugs, kill people, get each other pregnant, or riot as a result? No. Many lived stabler, more wholesome lives than they do today. Whites are patronizing blacks disgracefully when they assume—without evidence, I might add—that blacks can’t handle the truth.

What about (2)—the claim that whites might use IQ data as an excuse to mistreat blacks, either individually or as a group?

First, it is worth recalling that the whites who freed the slaves were all, by today’s standards, foaming-at-the-mouth white supremacists. Whatever whites have historically thought of blacks, there has never been a time when anyone seriously proposed internment or extermination or whatever other lurid fantasies Mr. Zmirak may have.

Second, the tiny number of whites who do deliberately hurt blacks (and I mean tiny —see below) don’t do it for abstract reasons. When John King dragged James Byrd to death behind a pickup truck in Jasper, Texas, he didn’t have Raven’s Progressive Matrices on his mind. I would bet he was thinking about the blacks who gang-buggered him in prison. [See Becoming A Devil , www.uexpress.com, by Joseph Sobran, March 22, 1999]

There will always be a few sadists and psychopaths in any population. If some of them decide to hate blacks (or whites or women or homosexuals ) it will have nothing to do with IQ. No one is going to read The g Factor and then go out and burn a cross.

Human beings have a knack for hating. Tamils and Sinhalese slit each others’ throats in Sri Lanka; Shiites and Sunnis blow each other up in
Iraq. Yes, they would probably tell you their enemies are stupid. But they have a hundred other primitive, tribal, and far more visceral reasons for killing each other. People do not hate each other because of overlapping Bell Curves.

As for (3), the implications or lack thereof for public policy, no one has ever suggested that all whites are smarter than all blacks. As Marcus Epstein, also a VDARE.COM contributor, explained in the debate at Takimag, thanks to the magic of standard deviation, there are fearfully smart people in all populations, even though the percentage of fearfully smart people varies a great deal from race to race. As a practical matter, if the black candidate is the best qualified, then by all means let him run General Motors—or be President for that matter. Common sense about race and IQ need not be a barrier to any individual getting ahead.

It is, instead, the dogma of equality that makes real policy mischief, because it requires identical racial outcomes. The notorious No Child Left Behind Act brands schools as failures if they cannot close the achievement gap between blacks (and Hispanics) and whites (and Asians). Because not one of the approximately 90,000 public schools in the country has managed to do this, every “diverse”; school in America would be
declared a failure—if the government followed its own rules.

The requirements keep being loosened to avoid this absurd outcome. But that did not keep 4,000 teachers, administrators, and
snake oil salesmen from attending an “Achievement Gap Summit”; in Sacramento last November. No fewer than 125 different panels were devoted to various forms of hand-wringing over the fact that no one, anywhere, no matter how hard he tries, can get Mexican-Americans to read or do math as well as Chinese-Americans

“Closing the gap”; is a national priority; it is a futile and dangerous priority

After all, there is a different achievement gap that is far larger but gets no attention at all: the gap between the top ten percent and the bottom ten percent of white students. It is a yawning gap; why does no one care about it?

Because everyone knows that some children are just plain smarter than others. Everyone knows it would be crazy to try to make all white students get the same grades. A few people even know that every child does better school work if he gets instruction specifically tailored to his level of ability—but that this makes the gap between the top and bottom scores grow even wider. Everyone’s performance rises with optimal, individualized teaching, but the scores of the brightest children rise more than the scores of the dim children. The gap grows.

Just imagine what perverse incentives would be built into a school system that was under terrible pressure to make sure all the white children got exactly the same grades. Is it possible that in their zeal to pull up the low scores, some teachers might skimp on their efforts to teach the high flyers? Gifted classes are being cut back all around the country. No one admits this is the reason, but whenever a school stops offering special classes for bright students—who are overwhelmingly white and Asian—the effect is to narrow the racial achievement gap.

Narrowing this gap should not be an end in itself. The goal should be the best possible performance for everyone, gap be damned.

If all students of every race were getting the best possible education, everyone would learn more but the racial gap would grow. So what? We shouldn’t give the racial gap any more thought than we do the gap between the top and bottom white scores. It is egalitarian dogma that has sent the country on this fool’s errand of gap-closing.

But there is much worse. The “noble fiction”; of racial equality does terrible damage to race relations. According to the fiction, blacks, Hispanics, whites, and Asians are all equally smart and hard-working. They are precisely, mathematically, geometrically equal. Even the slightest deviation in outcomes has only one cause: white racism, past and present. (The fact that Asians do better than whites is conveniently omitted from this argument.)

This means we are constantly telling blacks that white people are cheating them. If blacks are not as rich as whites, if they are more likely that whites to be in jail or on drugs or have AIDS or be on welfare or get shot or knocked up, it is because vicious, systematic racism did it to them. They are responsible for none of it.

For all of us, a basic stage in growing up is the realization that if we lose a race, it is because we ran slower, not because someone cheated. Sooner or later, all of us come to terms with the fact that we are not the smartest, best-looking, most musical person on earth (Bill Clinton may be an exception). We accept our limitations, and make the best of them.

But according to the “noble fiction,” blacks are never allowed to grow up. If they lost the race it was only because they were cheated. We tell them that if they are behind as a group, it is never their responsibility. It is because—and only because—whitey hates them and holds them down. If our goal were to teach blacks to hate white people, it would be hard to think of a better way to do it (along, of course, with constant reminders of slavery, lynching, and Jim Crow ).

According to the “noble fiction,”; the measure of black failure is the precise measure of white viciousness, and that gives blacks an inexhaustible reservoir of bitterness. No wonder Jeremiah Wright preached the sermons he did, and no wonder his congregation danced in their pews .No wonder rap lyrics are so full of anti-white vitriol. No wonder any given black is 40 times more likely to do violence to a white than the other way around.

Race relations in this country would improve dramatically if blacks got an entirely different message: that they sink or swim according to their own efforts and abilities, that they are not the puppets of white people, that they are adults who must be responsible for their own lives rather than children at the mercy of vicious, omnipotent strangers.

Recognizing the likelihood of racial differences in IQ is an important part of this

Race Denial is not a “noble fiction”. It is a noxious poison. Let us have no more of this silly talk.

The truth, we are informed on better authority, shall set us free.

Original article

(Posted on June 26, 2008)

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Comments

I vote for noxious poison. We might never know how many resources we have spent, and how many lives we have sacrificed, much less all the intangible costs, in the fiction that the races are fundamentally equal.

Posted by Question Diversity at 6:26 PM on June 26

This is a superb essay, which spells out perfectly why we can’t seem to solve the “racial problem” in this country. We have so constructed our educational system, and our methods of reporting the news, that we give blacks a perfect excuse for their failures and at the same time a similarly perfect excuse for hating White people. Would that we could all blame our failures on someone else, and then be told by all and sundry that we are perfectly justified in doing so.

Jared Taylor speaks the truth without flinching or embarrassment, without hatred or condescension. He is a national treasure, and should be cloned (if that were possible.)

Posted by Wayne Engle at 6:26 PM on June 26

That phrase, “noble lie, insofar as I understand it, comes from Plato. Being hardly a professional philosopher, rather simply a citizen wanting to stretch his mind, I took it upon myself to read the Bollingen edition of Plato’s work — all the dialogues and epistles of his in one heavy tome — cover to cover, taking a year to do it, because of how closely I tried to read it, each time I read it. What impressed me about his work, is that he is a totalitarian; and I believe that many planks of various totalitarian platforms can be found, in nuce, in his work.

A “‘noble(?)’ lie,” is still a L I E. Tell me, please, just what is “noble” about lying to them over whom one might have privilege of rule in any degree?

Posted by Robert Pinkerton at 6:57 PM on June 26

I got the feeling that Jared truly desires to teach and enrich the world’s refuse metastasizing within our borders. I would counter that we should not be easing them into American life but actively seeking to, by virtue of a strong white consciousness, make life within our country generally uncomfortable to them, prompting their voluntary departure.

I’m quite sick of seeing ever growing packs of Indians, Chinese, and Brazilians congregating in municipalities all across New England. Teach them? The only instruction I wish to give them is quickest way back to whatever failed area of the globe they came from.

Posted by Unbelievable at 7:02 PM on June 26

Interesting article.

I don’t like to nitpick, but Asians, as a whole, are not smarter than whites. To make it so, you first have to confine the Asian population to East Asians (Japanese and Chinese) and compare that to the average white population. Even on those favorable terms, East Asian only score a few points higher on IQ than whites. Of course, if you reversed it and compared only Jews and Germans to the Asian population as a whole, then, I believe, whites would score higher. Anyway, I would say Asians and whites are on par with each other and since both groups can compete and neither group demands special treatment, it is somewhat of a moot point. And before anyone flames me, yes I know German is a nationality and not a race; I am referring to the traditional Germanic people of white heritage.

Posted by at 7:03 PM on June 26

Many that are suppressing the IQ gap are not being noble or sensitive. Instead they are the race baiters that are teaching blacks there is no gap, and the only reason they score lower on a test is because of white racism, white privilege, or white bias. Many of these liberals are anti-white and anti-white establishment. Whites would do well to understand that rather than misconstrue the actions of liberals as misguided noble intentions.

I think many black have grown wary of the constant paternalistic, condescension from liberals. Blacks are more savvy than whites in political terms and much better organized.

Posted by at 7:15 PM on June 26

Race science will be banned the second they find the genes for intelligence.

Does Jared really believe that the people running this country are just going to sit back and allow his “race realism” to destroy what they’ve been working on for the last 60 years?

If he does, he’s delusional and needs help.

Geez.

I sure hope the rest of you aren’t waiting on a miracle like Mr. Taylor clearly is.

Posted by Rational Socialist at 7:35 PM on June 26

Although I myself often refer to race as an identifier of a person, I believe that involving the notion of race while discussing some controversial social and demographic issues is a big mistake.

Just the fact that such vital individual characteristic as, say, IQ are distributed among particular races with significant variation indicates that race is nor particularly reliable descriptor of an individual’s characteristics, not withstanding the fact that it is easily identifiable based on appearance of the individual in question. Also, the “Liberal” political correctness Inquisition re-enforces pejorative perception of all those who are studying races and racial traits, and stigmatizes them as “racists”. This doesn’t make the progress in this subject any easier.

The bottom line is that we don’t need even talk about races in order to express what we express on this forum (although it may require some more effort).

We should talk about genetically kin groups, instead. The idea is not new for some researchers of the subject; for instance, the concept of genetic distance has been successfully used for some 20 years or so now.

The bottom line is that the genome of an individual and not his race determine his personal characteristics, abilities, and even believes. Talking about blacks as a whole, as if it was a monolithic population (maybe, it was 300 years ago) is a mistake that gives every moron of Liberal orientation (not that the Liberals are morons) easy ammo against the speaker. It’s a little bit like including illegal aliens and immigrants into one category, while a finer taxonomy (e.g., highly-skilled immigrants, genetically distant immigrants, etc.) would be much more useful in analysis of the impact of the immigration on our country.

If we could, without mentioning the concept of race, have the above fact (that the genes define the person) acknowledged by the majority of Americans, we could begin making progress in dismantling the idiotic and backward mantras, like the “noble fiction” mentioned in the article. Only then the Renaissance will come.

Posted by A Reader at 7:43 PM on June 26

I am convinced that liberals care nothing about blacks. The liberal policies of the last half century have caused untold problems for blacks—increased crime, skyrocketing death rate by murder, the breakup of the black family, the decline of the cities, incarceration of young black males, and especially the widespread discontent and feeling of helplessness of the black community. How could these problems be seen as anything but catastrophic? A “black” president is not going to cure any of these problems, which have all been created or exacerbated by liberal falsehoods and the damping down of the freedom of speech of dissenters. The problem with liberals is that they have a fundamental distrust of human nature and they do not trust society at large (white society) with he ability to handle the truth. As far as liberals are concerned, the next Adolph Hitler is right around the corner if society accepts racial differences.

As far as “closing the achievement gap,” I liken this to the attempts by the alchemists to turn lead into gold. It never happened because it flew in the face of all natural laws.

Posted by Tim in Indiana at 8:16 PM on June 26

“Rational Socialist”

Socialism means ruling people by state coercion, as coercion is all the state has. In what regard is that rational?

You are advocating voluntary statism, where the people use force against themselves? Or do you want to pretend that the state is something other than F O R C E…??

Posted by dr. poon tang at 9:17 PM on June 26

Excellent. Jared Taylor nails the problem once again, but few will listen.

I’m so weary of the pretense that encompasses life in the USA.

I’m a 41 year old heterosexual White male. I have experienced the monotonity of America’s racial problems and pretense of racial “equality” my entire life. It will not end during my lifetime. What a waste of time.

I have lived all over the world on six continents, including Antarctica — I never lived in South America. I retired from the US military a few years ago.

I am seriously considering moving to northern Greenland with the Danes and Innuits. I’m not saying this to make a statement or pout. I am truly considering selling everything I own, buying an annuity, moving to Greenland, and not owning a phone, television, or radio. I would spend my time reading books, listening to music, hiking, and writing. There is absolutely nothing in America today that I would miss.

I estimate that between my annuity and my military pension, I will have around $3500 USD in monthly income for the rest of my life. I have no idea how far that would go in Greenland, but I don’t expect to need much.

I plan to research this much more before making any rash decisions.

Any thoughts?

Posted by at 9:19 PM on June 26

Asians flocking to a white created country (America) and flooding white created education establishments (Berkley and UCLA) prove they are more intelligent?

Why do you use American whites a barometer against Asians,Jared? Why not Germans, Fins,Sedes or any of the other Nordic countries that academically blow Asians away?

Because it disproves your “Asians are smarter” theory perhaps?

Posted by Ventriloquist at 9:23 PM on June 26

IQ tests are not the final word. The European contribution to technology,theoretical physics and mathematics is massive.

Jared,tell me something, in a public debate on a major television network, are you going to go on and state unequivocably that asians are more intelligent than Native Born White Americans?

Native Born White Americans are underepresented in the engineering and the science mjaors-relative to asians- in the California State University System because they have been warned by their parents that engineering and computer science majors could lead to unemployment a few years after graduation. White kids and their parents have seen the news stories of engineering and conputer science majors working at starbucks. In recent years Engineering and computer science majors have benn having great difficulty finding a job upon graduation.

As far as Whites being reduced to hopelessness and misery because of the growing Asian presence in America, there is growing evidence that it is. Jared, go to Brenda Walkers website and read what the victims of Legal asian immigration have to say.Read about Native Born White families have been driven into a state of stark raving fear as a result of having their jobs stolen by legal asian immigrants. This Jared, is what you should be writing and talking about in your public appearances. In fact, a very strong can be made that the presence of post 1965 Legal asian immigrants and their American born gene-line is resulting in the both the deskilling of the Native Born White Engineering workforce-you don’t use it you loose it- and the destruction of thousands of years collective engineering experience that resides in the brains Native Born White America. Our people are will being reduced to wage workers as a consequence. Despite what you may think, a lot of pain and ,misery comes along wth this.

No White Nationalist should be publicly stating that Asians in America are more intelligent than the majority Native Born Whie population scores on IQ tests notwithstanding. The fact that Europeans-including Euro-Americans have achieved so much in the sciences and engineering goes a long way in showing that there is something wrong with the IQ test fetish(and Asian fetish also)

As you well know, I particiapatd in that debate over at Taki in the comments section. None of the bell curvetrue believers in the comments section refuted any of my arguments. Unforunately, all of my comments were erased.

For the record, social scientists with a steep background in statistical reasonning have claimed that are major statistical flaws in the research presented in the Murray and Herstien book. So for you to claim that this is an irrefutable rock solid fact is likely to be wrong. Two who come to mind are Berkely economist Bradford Delong and Harvard economist Glenn Loury. I also know from having read research that has came out from the NBER over the last 12 years that other econometricians have found statiscal flaws in the research presented in the Bell Curve.

But I think all of the above is irrelevant. The case against post-1965 immigration and affirmative action can easily be made without reference to scores on IQ tests.

At the present point in time, I will not tell Native Born White Engineers and and computer programmers who have taken a beating at the hands of asians in the work place about vdare.com. What would be the point? The would end being told that the racial group they belong to is less intelligent than the Asian in America. There is something wrong with this picture.I’m really disgusted.

Posted by Jupiter at 10:02 PM on June 26

Any day that brings a new piece of thinking by Mr. Jared Taylor is a better-than-average day. But today’s piece is specially delightful: I nodded along with virtually every sentence, and laughed in agreement at several (e.g. “No one is going to read The g Factor and then go out and burn a cross.”).

I fully agree with Mr. Taylor that our commonly-willed hallucination about racial equality will not, in the long run, bring happiness — to either blacks OR whites. I too disbelieve in the “noble fiction.” As an ultrarationalist, I disbelieve in noble fictions generally. I don’t think using ANYTHING false or wishful or chimerical as one’s touchstone can EVER lead to a successful conclusion. Unstable basis, unsatisfactory results. Garbage in, garbage out.

Further, the author’s systematic demolition of the Three Big Fears of Racial Inequality (“Wrong on all counts”) is a masterpiece of reason over emotion. (And if you don’t believe in reason over emotion, perhaps you’d better happier over at dailykos?)

Mr. Taylor, at the risk of sounding sycophantic, thank you again for being who you are; and doing what you do. If not for you and AmRen, I’d probably have to start my own blog — and Lord knows I’m much too lazy for that! The fact that I can come on this site anytime I like and shoot my mouth off — without either paying for bandwidth OR getting slugged in the face — is a big boost in the quality of my life. For this I send you my sincerest gratitude. (And occasionally, when I can afford it, a few bucks.)

If other AmRen regulars (and irregulars) would like to take this opportunity to show their appreciation to Mr. Taylor & cie., please don’t hold back either with your words or with your wallet. Show the world that even “haters” can “share the love”!

Posted by The Incredible Shrinking White Man at 10:07 PM on June 26

“I suspect most blacks are no more afraid of race differences in IQ than whites are afraid of the possibility that Chinese and Japanese are smarter than they are.”

One does not build civilizations on high IQ alone. It takes creativity, innovation, and an ability to first see the ‘big picture’ without first nitpicking at the tiny details. Excelling at fact-checking, which Asians are very good at, does not a civilization make.

Space exploration and the science of genetics: it’s a white thing. Lest we forget.

Posted by at 10:59 PM on June 26

Another 18 years of not being able to appeal to anyone who is normal. Jared Knocked it out of the park again…

Posted by at 11:15 PM on June 26

“I plan to research this much more before making any rash decisions.

Any thoughts?”

I would visit first and then try and live there on a temporary basis first, say 6 months or a year. One thing, Greenland is very cold and dark when it comes to weather and that could be a big problem. However, living there on a temporary basis could give you a much better feel for things.

Posted by at 12:50 AM on June 27

All of this focus on IQ scores is bogus. IQ proves nothing except a person can do well on a test designed by elitist Ivy League folks — a high score on an IQ test proves that a person has ‘abstract thinking skills’ and nothing more. Additionally, people with high IQs often aren’t very socially functional, and they lack many of the practical abilities which keep civilization afloat since they often spend so much of their time lost in abstract subjects like theoretical physics or whatever. When is the last time being a Grandmaster at chess or a whiz at physics fed people or built a house or fixed a car?

I also agree that Asians are not necessarily ‘smarter’ than Whites even though some of them may have ‘higher IQs.’ As someone suggested above, if Asians are so smart why do they come here in droves to attend school and not do so in their own countries? Anyone who knows a good bit about Asian academia realizes that many Chinese (and to some extent Japanese) universities are nothing more than copycats and plagiarists of Western (White) universities.

The most creative and productive race on the planet is of course White Europeans since they combine hard-headed practicality with a theoretical/intellectual bent and aren’t too skewed in one direction like many Asians (pure practicality) or Jews (pure theory).

Posted by Get Real at 1:00 AM on June 27

“I suspect most blacks are no more afraid of race differences in IQ than whites are afraid of the possibility that Chinese and Japanese are smarter than they are.”

First of all, if the latest I.Q. results are accurate, we’re talking about a “group” I.Q. average of just 3 points difference between whites and some Asians, which is hardly enough to consider that there is really any significant difference. Too, Lind has the Chinese average at 100, the same as for whites. What’s the deal on that?

When speaking of group I.Q. averages between other races or nationalities of about the same few points difference, or even more, these same speakers always refer to the groups as “about the same” in group I.Q. averages. But, never is that done by anybody when referring to the tiny difference between average white and Japanese group I.Q. scores.

Instead we always hear, what the above refers to, that Japanese and Chinese are smarter than whites, implying that comparing random selections from each group the Japanese and Chinese will score higher no matter who might be compared. The only reason I can think of that this is done is out of fear that the speakers will be thought less racist if they readily admit that another group is smarter than they are, because, in essence, that’s what they’re saying.

Getting back to the three point difference, let me say that I.Q. testing is not advanced enough, nor does it take into account other factors relating to intelligence, to truly discern who might be more intelligent overall when the I.Q. differences are only about three points, so I take offense to these gentlemen denigrating my race, because in doing so they likely perceive that what they say will be given more credibility, and they will be better accepted by those who constantly scream racist. I mean who can legitimately be thought a racist if he admits someone of another race is smarter than he is?

And I resent people claiming that a moron with an I.Q. of 103 or 106, whichever is the accepted figure for the day, because it changes so often, is more intelligent than I am.

No, it’s not being petty, and yes, it’s a personal thing with me, and I imagine others take the same exception as I do.

Please, gentlemen, before giving up anything to another racial group that we have literally trounced in the field of intellectual pursuits for centuries, let’s weigh all the factors before repeatedly chanting the same mantra over and over again.

Posted by at 1:23 AM on June 27

I’m sick of letting this arrogant fool get away with saying whatever he or she wants.
First of all, I want to say that I agree with this site almost all the time. I visit here daily and I agree with Taylor all the time, though not always the commentators.
There are basically two kinds of people on this board. One are the 3/4s or so mature, rational white Americans and Europeans bemoaning with sad disbelief the general degeneration in society over the past half century or so, then we have the hysterical guys in Viking hats claiming guys with red hair built the Easter Island statues. Jupiter belongs to the second category, those people that have started to believe there own side’s propaganda too much. They have started to think that only people from northern Europe have ever accomplished anything, and state some so far-fetched conclusions that one wonders if they ever leave this site and go out into the real world.
The argument that Europeans are somehow smarter than East Asians because they have “contributed more” to the world’s intellectual library is flawed, as is the theory that whites are better because yellow people come here rather than the reverse. The fact of the matter is- Europe’s current leadership is a historical fluke that has only been true the past 400 years or so. I agree with the objective’s of this site, I believe in the Bell Curve and all that, don’t flame me, I’m not a “liberal elite”, but if we have any chance of moving forward into the mainstream we need to kick out the historical revisionists on this board. Anyway, back to topic- for the vast majority of history, the net flow of knowledge was from China to Europe, Europeans learned more from the Chinese than the reverse. In fact I believe overall, Europeans have learned more from the Chinese than the reverse. And if you look at lists of where capital is flowing, where patents are being made, where people around the world (yes, white kids are going to college in India! Do not allow arrogance to blind you. It is this same arrogant belief in white invincibility that made people think it was safe to allow milllions of non-whites into white lands… the white man could never possibly lose, he had conquered the world, thought the lazy whites, forgetting that the whites hadn’t always been that powerful, and they could fall,)are going to get degrees, East Asia is rapidly closing the gap. Economic growth over there is far stronger than it is anywhere in the Western world. What has the white man achieved, really? Not as much as Jupiter wants you to think. IQ tests ARE accurate, and we seem like hypocrital liars who will say whatever is convenient when claiming that the tests are valid when they show a gap between say Hispanics and whites but not between whites and Japanese.

Anyway, this isn’t meant to be a true White Nationalist site, and honestly I think the creation of some one-world white government is potentially disastrous and rather unrealistic, something the dreamers here need to get in there heads. This isn’t Stormfront. If you want that, go there. This place calls itself “race-realist” meaning the confronting of the reality of race. If the data shows whites are so much better, fine. But we shouldn’t push this into the realms of the ridiculous, or people will just see us what we are- ignorant white supremacists spouting irrational views, not backed up by anything.

Posted by Jupiter Lies at 1:25 AM on June 27

9:19

I always cringe at the “escape pod” mentality. We need all the racially conscious whites we can get right here, especially one as learned as yourself.

Posted by at 1:38 AM on June 27

This is a brilliant article. Thank you for sharing your clear thoughts. Especially for a reader from Europe (like me) it is both precious and a sad reminder of what we have even more lost than Americans: rational and free public debate.

I’d humbly like to add one point:

Whatever whites have historically thought of blacks, there has never been a time when anyone seriously proposed internment or extermination or whatever other lurid fantasies Mr. Zmirak may have.

This is true. More abstract: Groups of people who consider themselves smarter than others (with good reason or not) may have held contempt and lack of interest for groups considered less smart but never really mortally hated them or tried to exterminate them in mass murder.

But the opposite is not true.

People think that stupidity is despised and that the group considered more stupid on average could be ill treated. Noone seems to remember that in socialist/totalitarian societies not stupidity but intelligence is despised, and groups considered more intelligent become targets of violence - with their extremes in Cambodia and Nazi-Germany, but in the Soviet Union as well.

The truth, we are informed on better authority, shall set us free.

Yes. But only if freedom was only suppressed in a society rather than dead.

If this truth is no more deniable in a society in which liberalism has gone mad (has it already?), it could lead to even more governmental repressions against whites in America/natives in Europe, since liberals gone-mad and socialists will consider better outcome caused by genetically higher intelligence even much more undeserved - and therefore evil - than better outcome because of alleged “racism”. Maybe this sounds absurd to Americans - and I hope for all of you that it is really absurd in your country.

It is not absurd in the European liberal mind. I guess they would even hate us natives more if there were scientifical proof that we are more intelligent on average than third world immigrants.

Totalitarians love stupid people. Sometimes I suspect that they enforce third world immigration not because they think these people are equally intelligent, but because they know that they are not.

Aren’t we forced to help those poor victims of a politically incorrect God/nature and remedy His faults by embracing and cuddling them?

Posted by T.L. at 7:27 AM on June 27

I worked for a black man. He was well educated. He probably had a very high IQ. In addition, he was quite wealthy. Yet he didn’t pay his bills. He couldn’t show up to events on time. He sexually harassed the staff. He acted arrogantly. He was delusional. What I’m saying is… is there more than IQ going on here?

Posted by at 10:32 AM on June 27

I personally don’t agree with IQ tests because it is impossible to put a number on one’s intelligence. There are different types of intelligence and people are intelligent in different ways (ie.some are good in math, some in writing, some in the arts, some have more common sense, etc.) I do believe that there are overall average differences in intelligence when it comes to race as it is pretty evident in that different races, when left to there own devices, build different kinds of societies. As a whole, looking at africa and other places with large numbers of blacks, it is apparent that the black race on average is of lower intelligence and has a much higher percentage of people with low intelligence. This is NOT to say that there are no intelligent blacks or that all whites are smarter than all blacks, because that simply isn’t true. There are many individual blacks that are intelligent as well as individual whites that are of low intelligence. On an individual basis, a black person may be far more intelligent than the white next to him. However, when it comes to the group as a whole, it’s another matter.

Posted by at 10:41 AM on June 27

Beautifully written article.

However, there’s more going on here. I’ve seen this when working for Africans, and I see it many places I look.

Sure, perhaps African-Americans, on the whole, have a lower average intelligence than other groups.

Why, then, however do African-Americans, who are smart, act so badly?

Here’s an example… http://www.ktvu.com/news/16615115/detail.html

Posted by at 10:43 AM on June 27

We list off a great bunch of facts, but never force the leftwingnuts to explain the unexplainable. Such as, has liberalism worked anywhere at anytime? By now blacks should all be college grads building space stations somewhere out there, but they are not and the left spews on about something about “racism” but never has to explain exactly what they mean.

Posted by Simmons at 11:01 AM on June 27

Here’s another “silver bullet” to destroy the myth all races are alike. I am posting the link at the end of this news excerpt. I would point out GALVESTON has a very large Black population with Galveston (Black) teens almost always in the news… for savagely mistreating and torturing small animals, to attacks on human beings, and every kind of violence. So read the story and draw your own conclusions regards that “noble” lie of racial egalitarianism.

Parents fearful over frenzy of teen violence
09:04 AM CDT on Thursday, June 26, 2008
By Sara McDonald / The Daily News

Alexa Moffatt was sitting on her front porch Sunday night, waiting for her son to come home.

Just two blocks away, a group of her son’s ninth-grade classmates shoved him to the ground and held a gun up to his head to steal his $100 cell phone, she said.

The next day, two boys beat, cut and bruised a 16-year-old girl who got on the bad side of another group when she refused to have sex with one of them a few weeks before, the girl said.

One high school freshman in the neighborhood started carrying a meat cleaver in his back pocket to protect himself after he was beaten and robbed while walking to work. Moffatt said she took the weapon away from him but didn’t know what to tell him about defending himself.

Here’s the link, friends:

http://www.khou.com/news/local/galveston/stories/khou080626_jj_teenviolence.3ede3eaf.html

Posted by Fed Up at 11:10 AM on June 27

The claim that all races are equal is, and will always be a noxious lie. Foul propaganda aimed at forcing people to accept the unacceptable. The destruction of the White race by forced mixing with non-White races (endless immigration — voluntary or forced).

One can argue the point till hell freezes over but the bleak reality is that in America, Blacks and Hispanics produce MORE CRIMINALS IN PROPORTION TO THEIR ACTUAL NUMBER, than any other racial group! Which bleak reality explains the frenzied efforts of the government, the media, and not forgetting our liberals, to downplay the amount of crime by minority members. To discredit and attack those suggesting minorities are responsible for most of the crime. To even go through incredible lengths to hide and disguise this information; to keep the White American public from realizing the extent and amount of minority perpetrated crime.

Nor would we be constantly bombarded by incessant and endless Hollywood sponsored propaganda suggesting Whites and Blacks live together in inseparable harmony, if this were actually the case. Those utterly ludicrous Hollywood films and commercials. Where you simply can’t have only a White cast without showing their Black ‘best friends’ who invariably are portrayed as smarter, brighter more sophisticated than their inept White friends.

Posted by Fed Up at 11:19 AM on June 27

>>>, back to topic- for the vast majority of history, the net flow of knowledge was from China to Europe, Europeans learned more from the Chinese than the reverse. In fact I believe overall, Europeans have learned more from the Chinese than the reverse.

To “JupiterLies” I can only assume that the brilliant thinkers during the period described as “The Golden Age of Greece” had to be Chinese. That all those brilliant thinkers catapulting post-feudal Europe (including England) into the Industrial Revolution had to be Orientals.

Not sure what point you’re trying to make, but your arguments certainly are as specious and flawed as those you cite.

Yes there was SOME flow of knowledge from China to Europe and later the Americas. But China had always had a fairly primitive feudalistic society and most of that purported knowledge you speak of was not all that valuable or important. It was not until Westerners introduced technology, science and even medical advances to China that that nation came out of its shell.

Forget that nonsense the History Channel is spouting about Chinese Superships. A laughable concept. Humongous flat-bottomed unwieldy vessels sprinkled with small sails. Or those other claimed military weapons — which invariably were more harmful to the wielders than the enemy. That claptrap shown by the History Channel is no more than wishful thinking, trying to “prove” the non-existent technology and advances people desperately want to credit to an inferior race. Just like our “African History Frenzy” for two months every year.

China had some knowledge and was indeed responsible for some technological leaps. But those were miniscule compared to what White Europeans accomplished over the same multi-thousand year time span. Even gunpowder would have been discovered soon enough by White Europeans had it not been introduced by Marco Polo. In China the explosive properties of combining quantities of sulphur, charcoal and potassium was probably the result of a physician’s experiments. In Europe, an alchemist’s experimentation would sooner or later have made the same discovery.

What DID come from other nations were different food plants, and processes for food production and storage — pasta, for example. Knowledge, at least the greater portion of it, and more technological advances and learning flowed from White to Non-White Nations. Whether liberals wish to admit it or not!

Were other nations as advanced as Europeans, they would have had access to the same technology and the British Empire would never have been a reality. Nor the colonization by the Spanish, Dutch, Germans. Sorry, “Jupiter Lies”, you might look into a mirror before calling someone else “an arrogant fool.”

Posted by Fed Up at 11:50 AM on June 27

Posted by at 1:23 AM on June 27
I take offense to these gentlemen denigrating my race, because in doing so they likely perceive that what they say will be given more credibility, and they will be better accepted

This is the problem with white nationalists, and you are falling into the same trap. They don’t know how to temper their arguments in order to make them more appealing to the opposition. The totally forget that it is the opinions of the white majority that we must change. They apparently say to themselves, “By golly, I’m going to lay it all out like it is and my opponents don’t like it, too bad!” Well, where has that mentality gotten us over the last 50 years? Race realists have consistently lost ground over the last decades because they don’t know how to tailor their arguments to those listening. The anti-white agenda, on the other hand, have made tremendous gains because they have masterfully manipulated public opinion.

All this talk about “are Asians really smarter” in this thread is simply undermining one of Taylor’s key points: our sense of worth is based on our perceived value rather than our IQ. Those of you quibbling over this one part of Taylor’s article sound like you are saying that we should not talk about white-black IQ differenced because it may indeed hurt the feelings of blacks. I also find it interesting that posters like you are latching onto this one point of Taylor’s and ignoring the other 90% of his article, which you presumably agree with.

Finally, as another poster pointed out, even if Asians do score higher on IQ tests, this says nothing about initiative, creativity and the other traits needed to advance humanity.

If Asians score higher on IQ tests, we must accept this if we want to then use those same tests to point out white/black IQ differences.

Posted by Tim in Indiana at 12:23 PM on June 27

Get Real:

As someone who has posted on this website sporadically, I have stated what you have at several times in different ways.

Too many of the Whites (not us obviously) who post on this board have become too obsessed with IQ test and IQ in general! As someone who has an IQ of 112 and has been a very successful businessmen I can attest to this fact.

I can also point to a cousin of mine whose 141 IQ has done very little for him. Despite his high IQ his life has been little more than dysfunction, alcoholism, three failed marriages, hardly any friendships etc… I could go on but I think you get my point.

The fact is as you stated IQ tests only measure how well someone can process information and think in the abstract. They certainly cannot measure success in life. Many people (not all of course)with high or very high IQ are indeed dysfunctional, lack common snese, have horrendous people skills and are prone to addictions - be they alcohol, sex, paranoia etc…

In fact, it is probably safe to say that the majority of successful people be they CEO’s, College Presidents, etc… prbably have avergae IQs or IQs that are slightly above average at best.

Some of you really need to rethink this idea of high IQ = intelignece and prosperity. In a lot of cases , it does not.

Posted by Neil at 2:10 PM on June 27

None of this matters in the slightest. Or rather, everyone knows these things except for the braindead part of our society and since when has anything they thought ever mattered?

The truth is that there is a type of war going on in the western world. And I don’t mean that euphemistically. There are millions of casualties in this war. The war is ostensibly between blacks and certain other minorities (mostly blacks) and white people. Blacks victimize innocent whites via “crime”. And whites kill them in “self-defense” (mostly in the US) and imprison huge numbers of them.

But that’s only on the surface. What is really going on here is a battle between whites who want democracy and whites who want communism. There is a third faction, whites who want fascism. But that faction has been marginalized for decades now.

Blacks are being used as “brown shirts” by whites who want communism. They are not open about this. They wear a smile and act like good people, the entire time they are empowering and positioning their brown shirts to harm the whites who want democracy. But make no mistake, they know exactly what they are doing…..they just cover it up with pretty words and supposed ignorance. There is no “noble fiction”. The people who “pretend these things don’t exist” aren’t acting out of the kindness of their hearts. They are the type of people who send other to the gas chamber. Understand that, if you understand nothing else. The enemy here looks sweet, kind, nice….but is the BTK killer underneath. So, don’t turn your back on them, lol.

There are two stages to dealing with this, as far as I can see. The first is to make the neo-communist whites understand something. Although they’ve been at war with the rest of us for nearly 40 years, they have not gained any ground. Part of the problem is blacks and other minorities are TERRIBLE at being brown shirts. They are (and let’s be honest here)…stupid. They lack the ability to fight cohesively (as was made painfully obvious first during the korean war and has been a plague on the military ever since), have no loyalty to anything except their own vices and are a huge drain on resources to maintain. They are a huge social problem. But as a threat to our way of life, they are pathetic.

Once liberals realize this, they are very likely to abandon them. They are miserable failures. And they hate their masters. Worse, they’ve recently become a huge political liability. They no longer know their place as Obama has shown quite dramatically by displacing Clinton from “her turn” as President.

The second stage of dealing with this is to follow what is happening in the two communist states that matter…..russia and china. The power of the old soviet union is shattered. And despite intense support from the western world, russia looks ready to dissolve as a country. China is much stronger. But even there, the people care more about their own version of reality TV than about the state. Many are getting pretty vocal about demanding democracy. In communist states that don’t matter, for example, north korea, the people are reduced to cannibalism to stay alive. The state is too incompetent to feed them.

Communism, socialism, all of marxism…..miserable failures. What is the point of liberals continuing to pursue this? Even if they win, they’ve already lost. The grand social experiment of generations, is a complete and abject failure. Liberals haven’t really had to face this. It’s time they did.

Posted by at 2:31 PM on June 27

Liberal-liberty…aren’t they the same?

Liberty, for the state to do what pleases it. Ah, I see. Assical liberalism, in contradistinction to classical liberalism…

Posted by the morrons next door at 2:59 PM on June 27

Afterwards, at half dozen blacks came up to speak to me. They smiled, complimented me on my talk, shook my hand warmly, and wanted to talk for as long as I was willing.

I think this shows what value diversity can contribute. What if it had just been whites asking you questions? What if there wasnt a black mediator in Jared’s discussion with John Derbyshire? The discussions wouldnt be as fruitful. I think there are racial differences, but I also have no problem with a smart, motivated african or hispanic wanting to live in america or a black family wanting to move to a white neighborhood to escape the plight of their old neighborhood. I also wish more blacks knew about amren so they could see different points of view, and know that not all whites are as ignorant, jealous, and insecure.

Posted by at 4:02 PM on June 27

A point made to me by a chinese computer programmer some time ago and also I have read it somewhere but cant remember where is that the asians are very good at improving and perfecting ideas and things already thought up or made but are hardly ever the original inventor of things and ideas. He explained to me and said it was well known in the asian community that the whites think in a different abstract than they and always come up with the original ideas that the asians can always improve on. A perfect example is the computer industry, we thought it and they copied and perfected. I am not sure how this fits in with intelligence studies but is food for thought. Of course the blacks cant think of anything original or improve on anything exept being the best whiners on the planet. Kingfish

Posted by kingfish at 4:07 PM on June 27

The argument that Europeans are somehow smarter than East Asians because they have “contributed more” to the world’s intellectual library is flawed, as is the theory that whites are better because yellow people come here rather than the reverse.

Posted by Jupiter Lies at 1:25 AM on June 27

It’s difficult to argue with absurd claims like the one above. This is why the other groups of genetic kin should stay where their nations are and keep building their paradises of fredom and prosperity, which they shurely will is they are as smart as some claim that they are.

If they are really smart then why they voted (with their feet) this country, America, that was built by some genetically coherent groups from Europe, superior to theirs? Was it because they decided to act stupidly while in their native countries, but changed their mind and begun acting wisely as soon as they arrived at America’s shores?

Posted by A Reader at 4:17 PM on June 27

“Jupiter Lies”, as this poster styled himself… needs to do a bit of introspective thinking before namecalling.

If people regard Whites smarter or better, since Whites primarily gave us today’s civilization, that’s because they are. Not sure what he/she/it means by “historical revisionist” but that Europeans (which includes our ancient but venerated Greek thinkers) made the modern world possible… is an established fact. So WHY in hell should we not be proud of it and consider ourselves above the herd?

That absurd claim Whites learned more from the Chinese than vice versa is as flawed as can be. China until roughly a century ago was a feudalistic state, with few technological accomplishments. NO, that drivel promulgated by History Channel is utter rubbish. The Chinese acquired their learning and technology from White Western nations. An inarguable truism. I admittedly died laughing over H.C. trying to tell us about Chinese “superships” — unwieldy flat-bottomed rectangular monstrostities which were about as seaworthy in the open ocean as a garbage scow. Which enough upper decks making them top heavy and prone to having the wind act on that mass of wood like a sail — not necessarily bringing them where the crew WANTED to go.

But the History Channel nonsense is not the issue. Calling this site “race realist” then attempting to DENY the obvious — that historically, the White race proved itself SUPERIOR to non-Whites time and again… what is this poster trying to suggest? If anything. As to suggesting we should end up o Stormfront… that’s up to the individual reader… many of us AmReners probably do visit that site in addition.

Claiming Whites (or Chinese) are smarter… is an empty term. The reality is Whites, as opposed to Chinese, developed the knowledge base our civilization rests on. Whether “Jupiter Lies” chooses to admit that fact or not. Contributions by non-Whites, including Chinese, factored into that reality. But on vastly smaller proportions. So claiming we’re spouting views not backed up by anything is simply empty bombast.

Posted by Fed Up at 4:49 PM on June 27

Interesting…

The idea of a “noble fiction” is of course a white mans’ construct, just as the idea of “a white man’s burden” is.

Note this portion….

“But according to the “noble fiction,” blacks are never allowed to grow up. If they lost the race it was only because they were cheated. We tell them that if they are behind as a group, it is never their responsibility. It is because—and only because—whitey hates them and holds them down. If our goal were to teach blacks to hate white people, it would be hard to think of a better way to do it (along, of course, with constant reminders of slavery, lynching, and Jim Crow ).

According to the “noble fiction,”; the measure of black failure is the precise measure of white viciousness, and that gives blacks an inexhaustible reservoir of bitterness. No wonder Jeremiah Wright preached the sermons he did, and no wonder his congregation danced in their pews .No wonder rap lyrics are so full of anti-white vitriol. No wonder any given black is 40 times more likely to do violence to a white than the other way around.”

The end quotes are mine here.

My reading of the above quote from Mr. Taylor seems to reiterate the liberal narrative that puts the actions of whites as the causal factors in black behavior.

Mr. Taylor says,”No wonder rap lyrics are so full of anti-white vitriol. No wonder any given black is 40 times more likely to do violence to a white than the other way around.”

All due to that old “noble fiction” by whites.

Excuse me, but I was taught that the definition of being human was the ability to be self aware and to act as a moral being independent of outside forces. This definition was accepted by western civilization.

Mr. Taylor is stating that blacks don’t act this way.
That would mean that they fail to meet western standards as far as what or who should be defined as human.
Therefor, they are not human, according to western criteria.

That being the case,

Why should we countenance their presence amongst us at all?

They are either animals or God’s children.

Maybe some day we will be able to answer that question.

And act appropriately.

Posted by mderpelding at 6:08 PM on June 27

If they must ask if equality is a noble fiction or noxious poison, are they acknowledging that their view of equality does not exist?

Posted by at 7:51 PM on June 27

“(yes, white kids are going to college in India!”

I just read an article about Indians in the U.K. outsourcing their university coursework to people in India. It seems to be a major concern. Maybe the white kids over there are getting in on some of this action.

“IQ tests ARE accurate, and we seem like hypocrital liars…”

My question: Who is administering the IQ tests? I have read, heard, and seen all types of stuff about how non-whites cheat on tests. I have to wonder if what I have come across is just the tip of a huge iceberg.

I would like to see some research on altruistic genes. I would be willing to bet some money these genes skew heavily towards the white race. What other race has a man who dedicated a huge portion of his life attempting to teach sub-Saharan Africans agriculture so they might feed themselves? Unfortunately, this altruistic nature that seems to run through the white race may be a double-edged sword.

Once upon a time it gave us a gifted person who designed a sewer system in London that eradicated diseases tormenting the populace. On the other hand, apparently the white race has wasted untold trillions of dollars trying to help out the non-white people.

I feel the environment is having an impact on me. As a white man, it feels like the “I’m being played for a chump” genes have kicked in.

Posted by Drew at 8:02 PM on June 27

“…the asians are very good at improving and perfecting ideas and things already thought up or made but are hardly ever the original inventor of things and ideas.”

If this is indeed true, it may be a function of different cultures. In general, Asian culture emphasizes conformity to the larger group, has a reverence for the traditional rather than innovative, and a loyalty to historical custom. Western whites are raised to pride themselves on being leaders, not followers; being independent thinkers with fewer limits imposed on self and society; “dreaming” of what could be possible is encouraged.

Self-sufficiency, pragmatism, flexibility, resourcefulness, reaching out toward goals, creativity, rugged individuality…these are qualities that are encouraged and fostered in white culture.

Posted by at 10:01 PM on June 27

Over the course of the past two years, Bill Gates has stated publicly that the US needs to import its engineers,scientists and computer programmers from Asia because Asian are smarter that Americans. OF course he ment White Americans.

When someone states publicly one that IQ tests establish beyond a shadow of a doubt that Asians are more intelligent than White Americans, they are playing right into the hands of Bill Gates and Asians in America.Making statements to the effect that IQ tests have show conclusively that Asians are more intelligent than Native Born White Ameicans is not without very seriouis consequences for Native Born White Americans. Brenda Walker has an excellent post over at vdare.com about hindu doctors in America.

Posted by Jupiter at 7:48 AM on June 28

I plan to research this much more before making any rash decisions.

Any thoughts?

Posted by at 9:19 PM on June 26

Great post!

Just last year I started joking to my Girlfriend that I’m going to move to Greenland. I even did a bit of research. Of course, I’m never going to live there, but I would love to viisit.

Anyway, as far as your situation is concerned I have a good suggestion you might consider.

Argentina. The women are drop dead gorgeous, the guys are pretty friendly, and, they are European in an old-fashioned way, as one Travel writer once said about them. I can personally recommend it. For a man in your situation, who wants to leave and has the means, you will live like a King on your monthly earnings. But, be discreet. Heck, you can even get a job at a Language Institute teaching English. I can see why it wouldn’t be the first choice of many people, but I can vouch for the place. In any event, a brief visit, which with your cash flow would amount to a very VERY inexpensive and pleasant visit, should be in order.
What ever you decide, Good Luck.

Posted by Dedalus at 12:44 PM on June 28

Race science will be banned the second they find the genes for intelligence…Does Jared really believe that the people running this country are just going to sit back and allow his “race realism” to destroy what they’ve been working on for the last 60 years?

They won’t have to ban it - they’ll merely declare that blacks are entitled to special treatment because they have no control over the ticket they were dealt in the genetic lottery. It will go from being the fault of whites, to being no fault of blacks - and everything will stay the same - the double standards, the race norming, the affirmative action. Keep in mind, these people went from “making up for past discrimination” to “diversity” in the blink of an eye. In our society, are people less entitled to their special handicapped parking space if their handicap is genetic, rather than caused by a malicious stranger?

Posted by HideouslyWhite at 12:57 PM on June 28

Good point. But there’s a snake in this Garden of PC Paradise for Blacks and their Enablers.

Hispanics and Blacks have two things in common.

1 - Their cultures are both marked by high levels of cultural stagnation. Which means they’re extraordinarily hard-headed and unlikely to expose themselve to the tremendous pyschological and emotional and cognitive tension that accompanies any great transformation of consciousness (ideological diehards of the Left and Right are in NO position to sneer).

2- They hate each other. Not only that, but it’s a hatred that they are more than willing to act on. And, since they are the only ones in the USA allowed to own and carry guns, they are killing themselves in record numbers. Though, as we all know, the Hispanics, mostly Mexican, are easily overwhelming Blacks in areas like LA. And, as the Hispanic demographic spreads, so too will murder rate of Blacks by Hispanics.

So again, you have two groups with two things in common, however you want to put it.
Cultural stagnation and Mutual hatred.
Hard-headed and Blood thirsty.
Inflexible and Volatile.
etc.
These attributes are better looked at as character defects. Either way, they can hardly be viewed as useful methods of survival in a complex society. I don’t know if it’s a good idea to be too impressed with the Ideological arrogance of the Liberal-Left-Neocon Leviathan. Political Correctness is designed to unify Diversity. It can not be done. The Power Elite today is in the position of a Child at the Beach who has spent the whole day building a sand castle and now watches in horror while the sun sets, and the tide comes in.

Posted by Dedalus at 2:53 PM on June 28

To the people here who are lamenting about those who are of the opinion that the three point white/East Asian I.Q. difference should be accepted in order to give WN’s more credibility, let me say that we wouldn’t have so many people doing that if those who are reporting the scores wouldn’t keep braying so loudly about the difference as if it were some huge disparity, when it is practically insignificant.

Such close scores between any other groups that doesn’t involved whites would be….and IS…..regarded as nothing sensational.

But the loud proclamations from so many WN leaders, probably thinking to admit to the difference will give them more credibility and make them seem less “racist,” will not score any points with the liberals no matter what they might admit to. The liberals will not take them seriously anyway, so I’d really wish they would not exaggerate the differences. Then we wouldn’t have so many people trying to explain away what is truly really insignificant.

And, yes, those who are saying I.Q. scores don’t reveal all the factors necessary to determine intelligence, and, especially, group success, let me say that you are all right on.

Why that creates so much angst in some people is a mystery to me. I mean, we’re not talking about a 15 to 18 point difference between whites and blacks that can be resolved with some refinements by adding various factors. To confuse the two is to be confused on the subject.

Posted by at 7:32 PM on June 28

“The fact of the matter is- Europe’s current leadership is a historical fluke that has only been true the past 400 years or so. ” - Jupiter Lies

Hardly. The reason for Europe’s dominance over the last 400 years in the World, and the Dominance of Caucasians in Europe for the 1600+ years before that, is due to one thing, and one thing only.

Christianity.

Have you never read Will Durant’s books on World Civ? He started out an atheist, and became a Christian because he SAW that the West had benefitted more than any other race/culture in the entire world’s history, by the Death of the One Man, who said “Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free.”

I found much that I could disagree with in this column, and I might take on a refutation of some of it on my blog. But the HUBRIS of your statements are mired in the hedonistic PAGANISM of the mind who is Christophobic, and cannot see ANYTHING of good in Christendom; her history, her achievements, or her Volk.

My race is my nation, my Church is my Ethnos, and I am not impressed any more by those who can’t see that Ethnopolitics and Religion as the ‘metohia’ of one’s Ethnos are hypostatically joined.

Posted by Fr. John at 9:31 AM on June 29

Get Real and Neil:

You guys are correct. We as Whites spend far too much time debating and discussing the issue of IQ tests.

The average IQ for Black is 85. The average IQ for Whites is 99. Neither score is hardly anything to be excited about.

We as Whites need to be more conerned with the low popualtion birth among our people, how to combat the White elite power structure that is selling us out and the destructive propoganda that is being directed toward Whites, especially young Whites, in en effort to weaken and possibly destroy the White race.

This is where our efforts should be focused as opposed to worrying about frivolous tests that only demonstrate how well a person can think in the abstract.

Just my opinion.

Posted by Gary at 3:25 PM on June 29

Posted by at 10:41 AM wrote-
“There are different types of intelligence and people are intelligent in different ways…”
——————

Your comment is absolutely correct. The concept of emotional intelligence also needs to be considered. Emotionally intelligent individuals can manage their own emotions, practice self control, think about the consequences of an action prior to committing to said action, are capable of delaying gratification in order to meet a long term goal and empathize with and consider the emotional reactions of others. Emotionally intelligent individuals basically realize that life is not “all about them”. Although there are exceptions, blacks in general lack emotional intelligence. Hurricane Katrina was the perfect example.

It is of precious little significance to have high IQ without emotional intelligence. As another poster noted, many high IQ people simply cannot function in a social setting. As a result, they are not equipped to recognize subtle cues expressed by other humans, and often respond inappropriately to others. I’d recommend Daniel Goleman’s book on the subject-an excellent read.

Posted by at 3:56 PM on June 29

Kingfish wrote: “asians are very good at improving and perfecting ideas and things already thought up or made but are hardly ever the original inventor of things and ideas.”
________________

Great comment. This has been demonstrated over and over. Where were the Asians during the Renaissance? Consider Issac Newton, Leonardo da Vinci, Copernicus and Gallileo; where were the Asians? While Ford was perfecting the automobile and Tesla the radio, where were the Asians? This is not to denigrate them, but they truly do appear to be better tasked at taking an existing theory or invention and improving it, rather than coming up with one by themselves.

Many of you may probably remember how awful Asian produced electronics were in the ‘60’s and how Americans rightfully considered them junk. Today I’d take a Toshiba over an RCA any day. A prime example of how Euro American invented goods were mass produced and eventually perfected by the Asians.

Posted by at 4:18 PM on June 29

This is certainly one of the finest essays I’ve ever read on the importance of letting individual ability and application determine ultimate success, recognizing as it does that there is no alternative approach that can provide a positive outcome. Rather, the status quo, with all its attempts at distorting reality, guarantees an indefinite future of racial hostility, lowered levels of achievement for all members of society, and the virtual certainty that our civilization will be supplanted by those with a more rational approach at developing their human resources.

As an aside, some of the indignant responses to Jared’s comment to the effect that whites aren’t bothered by the fact that Asians score higher on IQ tests would indicate that a goodly number of whites are in fact bothered that “the bleedin’ wogs” are proving brighter than their erstwhile colonial masters.

I say “good.” A little competition will keep the white race on its toes.

Posted by john at 8:19 PM on June 29

Gary:

I believe that you are mistaken. The average IQ score for Whites is 125.

Posted by Eric at 1:20 AM on June 30

“Although there are exceptions, blacks in general lack emotional intelligence. Hurricane Katrina was the perfect example.”

Speaking of hurricane Katrina, looking at all the floods in the midwest involving whites, you don’t hear of anyone shooting at rescue helicopters nor do you hear of crime increasing or anything like that.

Posted by at 7:29 AM on June 30

“There are different types of intelligence and people are intelligent in different ways (ie.some are good in math, some in writing, some in the arts, some have more common sense, etc.)”

“The concept of emotional intelligence also needs to be considered. Emotionally intelligent individuals can manage their own emotions, practice self control, think about the consequences of an action prior to committing to said action, are capable of delaying gratification in order to meet a long term goal and empathize with and consider the emotional reactions of others.”

There can also be “moral intelligence” which is tied in with emotional intelligence. This is the abiltity to look outside of one’s self and to the greater good of society and mankind and to have certain principle such as that of hard work, looking out for others etc.

Posted by at 7:47 AM on June 30

Intelligence is only as important as the uses to which it is/was put. All hyperbole aside, White Europeans developed the knowledge and science today’s civilization rests on. Not Chinese, not Hindus, Japanese, Koreans. Most assuredly, NOT Black Africans. As to that “flow of knowledge” from China to Europe… as one poster wants to claim… some flow did occur, but it’s importance was relatively miniscule.

I am unaware of a Chinese engineer inventing the steam engine, experimenting with and developing an understanding of electricity. A Chinese Newton researching and deveoping an understanding of gravity. A Chinese Kepler, a Chinese Pythagoras… and so on and on. Historically, Chinese have a well-deserved reputation as being good copiers (reverse engineering) but with little recognition for original thinking. A trend reflected even in today’s times with the excessive amount of spying for industrial and defense technology conducted daily by Chinese! Something to think about, I’d say.

Posted by Fed Up at 8:10 AM on June 30

Posted by at 7:32 PM on June 28

This whole post is very good. The whole, Asians are smarter, is singularly unimpressive. Obviously, what do we mean by “smart”. Their children can put a Leg-O set together faster than ours? Or a Rubics Cube? Who cares? There is a fundamental difference in our cultures that ALMOST no one talks about.
As far as I can tell, ALL talk from the Left is not very scientific, its explanations ultimately are “moral”, as in “moralizing.” And, as moral explanations go, they’re not terribly impressive, or inspiring. SJ Gould is an excellent example in Science. But we have the same in matters Linguistic, or, more simply, Language, ie; Noam Chomsky; and with History, Howard Zinn.

All of them influenced, directly or indirectly, by two other pseudo-scientific Moralizers - Marx and Freud. One thought he had explained all of History and Society, when, in fact, he had merely interpreted a handful of documents and attached it to an a priori theory on Economics that, if blindly obeyed, would somehow save the world. And the other thought he was explaining all of Human Behavior by creating an explanation of mythology, when he really created a mythology of explanation. Something he couldn’t see because he couldn’t get over his obsession with sex. That’s why his partner Carl Jung broke ranks with him. Jung, raised on a farm, knew more about sex by the time he was ten then Freud knew his entire life.

So, we have Science, Language, History, Family, Society, the Individual, and Human Behavior, all “explained”, or, explained away, by a small group of psuedo-intellectual charlatons with an agenda.

Given the enormous, yawning, GAP, between the quality of their “thought” and the quantity of their influence is it any surprise that the West is dying?

Time for some new thinkers, no?

And, does anyone think they are going to come from the East?

An answer to the above question will help us understand the fundamental difference between our two Cultures.

Posted by Dedalus at 9:00 AM on June 30

Eric:

You are wrong! Gary is correct. The average IQ score for Whites is 99. Even the average Asian and Ashneki Jew have IQ that are 107 at best.

I would venture to say that about 10 to 15% of the entire population has an IQ higher than 125.

Posted by Jeffrey at 10:39 AM on June 30

John

The competition you are so enthusiastic about has left thousand of American families is a a state of serious economic distress. What so good about this? Your post could have been written by a propagandist for corporate America or by Bill Gates himself.

Thousands of Native Born White Americans have been robbed of their jobs and wages by Asian Legal immgrants. This has been going on since 1971 when the first wave of Asians engineers hit America’s shores. As a consequence, thousands of Native Born White kids are being told to stay out the engineering field. As for the thousands of Native Born White Engineers who have left the field or are now working at jobs that reqire a lower level level of technical skill, their enigineering skills deteriorate over time.

Without a doubt the prescence of post-1965 Legal immigrant asains in the America has resulted in the deskilling and destruction of a Native Born White Engineering workforce. I suspect that you understand all of this and probably think that this is a very good thing.

Native Born White Amerian parents don’t want to be told that their White American children are less intelligent than the “Amerian” born children of post-1965 legal asian immigrants based upon a score on a IQ tests.

True story. Jared Taylor twice appeared on Phil Donahue’s MSNBC to discuss White Nationlism. On the second show, a self identified forty year old Native Born White Engineer complained bitterly from the audience that the company he worked for passed him over for promotion in favor of a 25 year hindu LEGAL immigrant male off ther boat. The White American male engineer also said that he now has to report to this 25 year Legal immigrant from India. Here was an opprtunity for Jared to go go after the Legal immigrant Asians. Instead, the debate was sidetracked to a discussion about scores on IQ tests whare Jared Taylor announced on national TV that Asians weere smarter than White Americans. Get a transcript of the two shows and you can read about what was said on the two Donahue shows. As I wrote previously there is something wrong with this picture.

Another true story.Bill Moyers did an interiew Nobel prize winner in Physics CN Yang about 18 years ago. CN Yang stated emphatically that although Chinese grad students in the Stony Brook physics department tended to get the highest scores on the written qualifying exam, it was the American White Students -who scored far lower than the Chinese grad students on the written exam- who wrote the outstanding PHDs in physics in the Suny Stony Brook Physics department. CN Yang said that the Chinese students who scored perfect scores on the written qualifying exam would come into his office crying about the fact that the White American students who had lower scores on the phd qualfying exam would write outstanding physics phd thesis.It is not to difficult to find this interview. It was published in Moyer’s book and is probably floating around the internet.

I have the lowest possible opinion of IQ tests. The very strong case against completetely shutting down all post-1965 LEGAL immigration does not require a debate /discussion about IQ scores. The other option is announcing on national TV that White American Kids are dumber than Asian kids. By the way, who defeated the more “intelligent” Japanese during WW11? The “intellectually inferior ” Euro-American with its superior. technology and fighting strategy.

Posted by Jupiter at 1:19 PM on June 30

In that same interview with interview with Bill Moyers,CN Yang stated that his biggest scientific influence was a European American man named Benjamim Franklin.

Posted by Jupiter at 1:31 PM on June 30

I am unaware of a Chinese engineer inventing the steam engine, experimenting with and formulating an understanding of electricity. A Chinese Newton researching and developing an understanding of gravity. A Chinese Kepler, a Chinese Pythagoras… and so on and on. Historically, Chinese have a well-deserved reputation as being good copiers (reverse engineering) but deserve little recognition for original thinking. A trend reflected by today’s excessive amount of spying for industrial and defense technology conducted constantly by Chinese! Something to think about, I’d say.

Posted by Fed Up at 1:34 PM on June 30

“This is where our efforts should be focused as opposed to worrying about frivolous tests that only demonstrate how well a person can think in the abstract.”

“Only” think in the abstract?!? Good Lord. It’s possibly the most important activity of which humans are capable.

Also, I agree with the poster who said that average IQ people are more often successful than high. For one thing, we obviously live in a predominantly average IQ society. High IQ people don’t fit into it easily. Why would they?

My feeling is that high IQ people, and, yes, they are mostly but not exclusively white males, should be helped by society so that they can contribute their intelligence to the problems that face humanity. Unlike James Watson, who said that scientists need to be sociable as well as intelligent, I think that if they’re not, well, so what. We need brilliant people whatever they’re like. In the book A Short History of Nearly Everything, there are numerous stories of the eccentricities and oddities of the brilliant men who made important discoveries and breakthroughs in science and medicine. We need brilliance. It should be sought out and supported. I know businesses do this sometimes, but White men should do it too. Form scholarships groups to support the very intelligent.

I met a young man once who thought there was something wrong with him and his whole family. When I got to know him better, I realized that he was extremely intelligent. He memorized effortlessly and reasoned rapidly and accurately. He had no idea that his ‘problem’ was that he was on the lonely high end of the IQ line.

As for ‘pretending’ that people are smarter than they are, I find it completely incomprehensible.

Astrid

Posted by at 4:25 PM on June 30

…” but if we have any chance of moving forward into the mainstream we need to kick out the historical revisionists on this board.”

Posted by Jupiter Lies at 1:25 AM on June 27

The notion that some posters should kick other posters off the site is ridiculous. There already is a panel for review of posts in place. If you want to be where only people who agree with you are present, go stand in front of a mirror and talk. As it is, this site has a fairly small number of chronic posters. How can Amren or its general philosophy ever go mainstream if we feel we have to drive people who post thoughts we disagree with? How do we bring more people around to the idea of the right to survival for the White Race? How do we form a workable movement if we are focused on paring ourselves down to a pure enough group? There could be a PC of Racial Nationalism, in fact there has been in history and in the end, nearly everyone was the enemy - remember?

The one thing that makes me nervous about Amren is that if a movement ever did get any momentum going and came into any real power, infighting would ensue with for example - certain religiously focused members setting on others either not religiously focused or focused “wrongly.” The very nature of qualifying for membership in a movement may be the fatal flaw of the movement, especially this one. Who among us can qualify as “pure enough” if we are to pare down acceptability according to whom? Which is why this movement will probably remain nothing more than a discussion board. So let’s discuss things, not drive off posters!

Posted by Whiteplight at 5:33 PM on June 30

“I am unaware of a Chinese engineer inventing the steam engine, experimenting with and formulating an understanding of electricity.”

Hmm, who came up with the theoretical device called the “memsistor,” which only now has been invented as an actual device?

“Memristor theory was formulated and named by Leon Chua in a 1971 paper. Chua strongly believed that a fourth device existed to provide conceptual symmetry with the resistor, inductor, and capacitor. This symmetry follows from the description of basic passive circuit elements as defined by a relation between two of the four fundamental circuit variables, namely the voltage, the current, the charge and the flux[5]. A device linking charge and flux (themselves defined as time integrals of current and voltage), which would be the memristor, was still hypothetical at the time.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memsistor

Posted by at 2:36 PM on July 2

No one is claiming that the chinese are dumber than Europeans. The essential point is:anyone using scores on an IQ tests as incontrovertible evidence that Asian “Americans” are more intelligent than Native Born White Americans ,is skating on very very thin ice. Race replacement is the fundamental issue.

Posted by Jupiter at 9:37 AM on July 3

Well, you know, Jupitor, no one is replacing European “Americans” in the US. Nothing prevents European “Americans” from reproducing at any rate they choose, just as Blacks do with government largesee. The fact that you continue to allege that European “Americans” cannot compete against uncreative Han Chinese is just a plain insult to the creative people you claim to be defending against those awful Asians and their “American” gene-line.

Posted by at 11:28 AM on July 3

posted at 11.28

The fudamental issue is race replacement of the majority Native Born White American population by the continuation of post-1965 immigration policy. Why should Native Born White Americans be forced to compete with post-1965 Chinese legal immigrants and their “American” gene-line for the scarce resources of America? America doesn’t belong to the China.

Had did Native Born White American manage to survive all this time time without the massive inflx of Asians? Quite well thank you. Your post reeks of post-1965 asian aggression towards the majority Native Born White American poplation. No reason why Native Born White Americans should tolerate the importaion of the Chinese fifth column element.

And chinese and other post-1965 non-whites are repalcing Native Born White Americans. They move in and WE move out. Were it not for the safety valve of America’s land mass, post 1965 LEGAL immigration would have been shut down twenty years ago. Native Born White Americans didn’t bring their fertility level down so that they can be replaced by the Chinese. Now tell me somethung mister asian, are you in favor of White Americans increasing their fertility level to four children per woman. If that ever happens WE will be back to 90 percent of the population over time

Post-1965 asian “americans” have an aggresive attitude towards Native Born White American. Deportation is in order.

Posted by Jupiter at 2:55 PM on July 3

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