Sent Home: The Suspension Gap
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James Walsh, Star Tribune (Minneapolis-St. Paul), May 19, 2008
Keenan Hooper likes to joke around and admits he has a motormouth. He also admits to getting into trouble again and again with teachers weary of his antics. School officials have sent him home more times than Keenan or his mom can count. So often, in fact, during his past couple years at Jackson Middle School in Champlin that he was referred to special education for a “behavioral disability” and saw his grades plummet.
This is not what Keisha Hooper wants for her son, who is black. She said she has asked how sending him away is helping.
{snip}
Black students in Minnesota are being suspended at a rate about six times that of white students, according to a Star Tribune analysis of state Department of Education data. Some are sent home for serious misbehavior, like fighting or drugs. But most are suspended for lesser incidents, such as talking in class, goofing around or challenging teachers—offenses for which there is more disciplinary leeway.
Black children across the country are suspended more often than whites. But Minnesota’s suspensions disparity is twice the national average.
{snip}
In Osseo schools, black students make up 22 percent of the enrollment but 62 percent of the students suspended.
In Eden Prairie, where black enrollment is 9 percent, 41 percent of the students suspended were black.
And in Wayzata, 35 percent of the students suspended were black, while black students were 7 percent of enrollment. Nearly every Minnesota school district with black students suspends them at rates higher than whites.
The consequences, educators say, are especially significant because Minnesota already has one of the nation’s largest achievement gaps between black and white students, as measured by test scores and graduation rates. Kicking black students out of class may be widening that gap at a time when it’s becoming increasingly important to close it, some educators say.
“You can’t teach them if they are not there,” said St. Paul schools Superintendent Meria Carstarphen, who has made cutting the number of suspensions—especially those imposed for more subjective reasons—a priority. “If you’re really serious about closing an achievement gap, you have got to go deeper. You’ve got to bore deep [into suspensions].”
Many educators say the cause of the disparity is a complex web, with threads running from cultural differences to breakdowns in some families to evolving definitions of what’s effective teaching.
{snip}
“If kids believe that we love them and we are passionate about what we do, they want to work for that relationship,” said Kate Maguire, assistant superintendent for leadership, teaching and learning in the Osseo schools. “When you have a roomful of students who look like you, perhaps those relationships are easier. When they are different, it makes the intentionality of building those relationships ever more important.”
{snip}
Zero tolerance
{snip}
The most common reason for suspension in Minnesota is “disruptive behavior,” a broad category that includes laughing during a test and running around in the classroom. And it may be the category in which the decisions of teachers and principals are most subjective.
At Hopkins West Jr. High, officials meted out 20 suspensions for “disrespect.” In the Anoka-Hennepin schools, nearly 3,400 suspensions were handed down to middle school students for “disrespectful, insubordination or language” reasons. Of the more than 500 children in kindergarten through third grade who were suspended in St. Paul last year, half were sent home for behavior for which district policy does not require suspension.
“Teachers have to develop more tolerance. And the only way they can get that is through teacher training,” said Roger Banks, a research analyst for the Council on Black Minnesotans. “Discipline is a teaching moment. This is where your abilities as a teacher come into play.”
{snip}
Suspending students for being loud does more harm than good, said Philip Miner, director of community initiatives for the Minnesota Private College Council.
“My greatest concern with the data is this: I am of the mind that if you separate a kid from the classroom, learning stops,” Miner said. “When we overlay that reality with the demographic data that suggests too few students of color graduate from high school, how do you reconcile the fact that we are bumping so many kids out of class and breaking their link with academic progress?”
{snip}
(Posted on May 21, 2008)
Comments
Why don’t they have a parallel career track for African-Americans that would shunt them directly over to a TRADE so they won’t become bored and disruptive?
Posted by at 6:17 PM on May 21
“Black students in Minnesota are being suspended at a rate about six times that of white students,…”
“This is not what Keisha Hooper wants for her son, who is black. She said she has asked how sending him away is helping.”
This seems to be related to the difficulty “Blacks” have being aware of much other than “self”. They seem unaware that most White, Latino, and Asian students attend school for the purpose of learning, and that disruptive “Black” antics in the classroom is not conducive to that aim. Sending disruptive “Blacks” away helps.
Ronald
Posted by Ronald at 6:33 PM on May 21
Never, of course, is the simple question raised: why can’t these kids just shut up and behave in class? Oh, that’s white bias, and Mr. Banks notes, teachers have to learn to have more “tolerance” for this behavior. Better to let the learning atmosphere for everyone deteriorate than tolerate any sort of disproportion in discipline statistics.
Posted by Fletcher at 6:45 PM on May 21
Suspension “gap” = 15 point IQ gap + dysfunctional culture
Nothing more really needs to be said.
Posted by Old Victorian at 6:51 PM on May 21
Black children across the country are suspended more often than whites.
Similarly, they are overrepresented in our criminal justice system as a result of their “behavioral disability”.
Posted by sbuffalonative at 7:16 PM on May 21
“She said she has asked how sending him away is helping.”
Typical attitude; it’s helping OTHER students learn but other students don’t matter to her. Doesn’t it ever occur to these people that disruptive kids make it more difficult for well-behaved kids to learn? I guess not.
Posted by jewamongyou at 7:22 PM on May 21
What about the students that want to learn? Should they suffer because of the inappropriate behavior of blacks? If the Cultural Marxists have there way the classroom would be even more of a zoo then they already are! Segregation is the only way to allow the serious students to flourish!
Posted by Vancouver Steve at 7:27 PM on May 21
Why don’t they ever study the issue of why Black’s can’t behave themselves? Why is it they always want a free ride? Where are their parents? Do they behave this way at home? Kid’s need to know there are consequences for their actions. Schools and parents are not doing these kids any favors by giving them a free ride. My suggestion would be they use in-school suspension for low level infractions. The parents that are complaining about their kids getting suspended should spend a day following their child around in school — the embarrassment of that might scare the kid straight!!
Posted by JAM at 7:45 PM on May 21
Why are blacks always compared to Whites? What is the ratio of black suspensions compared to say Japanese-Americans.
Posted by at 7:49 PM on May 21
I went to high school at Paseo High scgool in Kansas City. High representation of blacks in the student body. I had zip problems with any of them. Almost 30 years later the same high school if full of black ghetto gang bangers. Damn shame, it was a nice mixed race high school with few problems at one time. This has really changed my perspective regarding younger blacks.
Posted by at 7:52 PM on May 21
I work in several districts and study Black behavior in the classroom. It is more flagrant and more truculent than other groups. Their temperment will not allow them to coexist with other students. Only a few Blacks show me they are willing to learn.
Posted by White is Beautiful Robert at 7:55 PM on May 21
Suspending students for being loud does more harm than good, said Philip Miner, director of community initiatives for the Minnesota Private College Council.
“My greatest concern with the data is this: I am of the mind that if you separate a kid from the classroom, learning stops,” Miner said.
OK WAKE UP BLACK PARENTS and imbecilic school administrators: Your children don’t have the right to run around the classroom cutting up and disrupting class so that NONE OF THE OTHER STUDENTS CAN LEARN. Let me share with you one of our white magical secrets for insuring that our children excel at school and go on to be able to get and keep good paying jobs. When our kids go to school we make sure they know TO SIT DOWN, SHUT UP, PAY ATTENTION TO THE TEACHER AND TAKE NOTES.
If your children can’t learn these basics of proper behavior and good discipline then they are on a track to FAIL. Without these skills a child won’t be able to graduate high school and won’t be able to get into college or a good trade school. As a father my suggestion is if your child (regardless of race or background) is having disciplinary problems and gets suspended from school you have a great opportunity to help your child with learn a vital life lesson.
Instead of wasting time arguing with school administrators, go get your phone book and look up LANDSCAPERS. Ask for the person in charge and explain to them that you have a child that doesn’t value education and that you would like to have them work for the landscaper for free for the duration of their suspension.
Now when I was in college I worked for a landscaper and it was one of the hardest physical jobs I have had in my life. Spend a 50-60 hour week with an idiot spoon (shovel) in your cramped blistered hands and you will learn that you need to find a way to get a better job. And the path to a better job is a better education, so when you go back to school, SIT DOWN, SHUT UP and PAY ATTENTION.
Posted by Enough at 7:57 PM on May 21
As Rev. Wright explained in his big speech to the NAACP, black children jump all around, shout and act out in class.
That is the way they relate to education.
They need an African-style education, lots of noise, jumping around, twice as many recesses, flashing lights, music, rapid movement and other things they can relate to.
White kids thrive in much quieter classrooms as Rev. Wright recognized.
Expecting both white and black children to thrive in the same classroom is crazy.
So like Rev. Wright says, we need segregated classrooms, segregated by race, so both blacks and whites can learn as well as they can.
Posted by Big Bill at 8:00 PM on May 21
My! Two “Gap” articles in a row! I have no idea when the “Gap” explanation was concocted by sociology departments, but I have a strong suspicion that it was long before “the Generation Gap” became a commonplace among news-readers and genteel company.
Since that time, (lets say 1965) the Gap explanation seems to have become the universal compass point for all social/moral crusaders.
I remember hearing a few years back about an “E-Gap” having to do with a (supposed) great disparity in access to computers and other marvels of our inglorious age for people who live in rural areas.
We were told that it ‘disproportionately impacts rural populations and…” you can finish that tune yourself if you like. Weve all heard it so many times we can sing it in our sleep. The problem with that one was that rural areas are usually overwhelmingly White, and White populations are still resistant to being herded.
Getting back to the Gap Explanation, please do not acquiesce if it comes up in conversation. The “idea” is utterly empty and meaningless. “Gap” suggests that there is some mysterious number and proportion written into the nature of things whose “balance” must be assayed and any deficiency filled immediately - usually always by heavy handed coercion just the way humanitarians like it. It is utter rubbish.
Please do your part and eliminate this idea from our commonweal.
Thank you.
Posted by Mr. Smith at 8:00 PM on May 21
The best part about this statistic is that the “zero-tolerance” policies most schools now have eleminate discretion on the part of school officials, thus excmpting them from accusations of “racism.”
Posted by Michael C. Scott at 8:03 PM on May 21
If they would just give these kids and their families more free stuff they would become the best and brightest, but, I’m not telling you anything you don’t already know.
Posted by at 8:23 PM on May 21
“You can’t teach them if they are not there,” said St. Paul schools Superintendent Meria Carstarphen, who has made cutting the number of suspensions—especially those imposed for more subjective reasons—a priority.
———
Yet, you can teach the rest of the class if these problem students are there. The ghetto in Minneapolis is spreading into the northwest suburbs and that’s where the Osseo school district is. In fact I have two nieces in the Osseo school district. I can assure all readers that the blacks in the district are the children of welfare migrants from other parts of the country.
Just look at the reasoning of the school officials, though. Is there any hint of even the slightest competence? Blacks spell doom for any school district.
Posted by at 8:23 PM on May 21
“The most common reason for suspension in Minnesota is ‘disruptive behavior,’ a broad category that includes laughing during a test and running around in the classroom. And it may be the category in which the decisions of teachers and principals are most subjective.”
What a typically “objective” article on racial issues by a major city “news” rag.
All of the expected hogwash about the “mystery” as to why blacks only make up a minority at this school or that, but make up a plurality to majority of the suspensions in them. Next of course it is mentioned that blacks are mostly suspended on highly “subjective” offenses such as “disrespect,” “language,” or “insubordination.” Then the coup de grâce is delivered and the “mystery” explained; “racism” most foul (if also
subconscious) by white teachers and principals alike is the cause, not the behavior of the “misunderstood” little black angels.
Of course this is all nonsense and the story never delves into how many warnings were given by school authorities prior to the suspensions, or the levels “disrespect,” “language,” or “insubordination” that were offered by the black students. As we all know, there is a big difference to saying “yeah right” to a scolding teacher and calling them a “mother f***er.”
I know, I know, how gauche of me to even mention that.
As always, God help us all!
Posted by John PM at 8:25 PM on May 21
As a former high-school and middle-school teacher, I can attest to the following facts, which are true especially when the blacks are the predominant demographic in a community:
1. They can’t sit still
2. They can’t shut up
3. They can’t leave each other alone
4. They have no respect for authority figures that aren’t beating them
Posted by at 9:00 PM on May 21
“Yet, you can teach the rest of the class if these problem students are there. The ghetto in Minneapolis is spreading into the northwest suburbs and that’s where the Osseo school district is. In fact I have two nieces in the Osseo school district. I can assure all readers that the blacks in the district are the children of welfare migrants from other parts of the country.”
Posted by at 8:23 PM on May 21
This has been the case for some time, and it has lead to “white flight” all the way to St. Cloud, as well as sprawl towards the far southern and eastern parts of the Twin C
Posted by Old Victorian at 9:13 PM on May 21
It’s only because these black kids are “right-brained”. So says the pretend reverend Wright.
“Council on Black Minnesotans”. They just have to be kidding.
Another black group to exploit other blacks for notoriety and profit. Their children are killing each other, and they’re heavy into drugs and violence, but they want to make excuses for their children who act out out in school. This is typical in regard to “black priorities”.
Watch the tax money flow to the schools, and the problem increase. Our government rewards failure at every turn, and this situation will be a major cash cow.
The black kids act out disrespectfully because they are told by their elders that they can. It really is that simple. Since the sixties, when black riots were blamed on everyone but the rioters, the door to this insanity opened and now we’re paying the price.
The majority of blacks expect special considerations in every aspect of life, and if they don’t get it, they whine to the nearest government agency. They then get what they want at tremendous cost to the taxpayers.
All the way from kindergarten through college, blacks act out, don’t go to class, and they fail wholesale. Then they blame it on whites and soon “get paid”.
They have preferences in hiring, college admission and financing, promotions on the job, and government entitlements. Why should they try? I’m serious in asking.
Why should they try?
Posted by Proactive at 9:17 PM on May 21
“Yet, you can teach the rest of the class if these problem students are there. The ghetto in Minneapolis is spreading into the northwest suburbs and that’s where the Osseo school district is. In fact I have two nieces in the Osseo school district. I can assure all readers that the blacks in the district are the children of welfare migrants from other parts of the country.”
Posted by at 8:23 PM on May 21
This has been the case for some time, and it has lead to “white flight” all the way to St. Cloud, as well as sprawl towards the far southern and eastern parts of the Twin Cities metro. As a Twin Cities native, I just knew that this “white flight” would occur, given how cliquish and provincial Minnesotans are.
And I thought Seattle/Tacoma/Everett was bad.
Minnesota (and, somewhat to a lesser extent, Iowa and Wisconsin) are seen as bastions of liberalism and “tolerance.” The Lutheran Church is a large reason why, but even the majority of Lutherans will only put up with so much black misbehavior before moving. It won’t be long before the Twin Cities metro encompasses three states and some 20 counties.
Thanks a lot, liberals! You’ve done a great job ruining my homeland.
Posted by Old Victorian at 9:28 PM on May 21
The easiest, most direct and most effective way to handle this problem is to simply make it optional for blacks to come to school.
Given the choice, almost all will choose to stay home. Certainly all of the ones that are a problem, will.
It will make zero difference in their educational outcome, too.
The average black IQ is 85. This was considered retarded back in the day.
But what is IQ? One definition is based on its original purpose….to separate out those who would benefit from an education from those who would not. It does that very effectively, lol.
In other words, at least half (and probably alot higher than that) of blacks cannot be educated. And nothing will change that, short of a miracle breakthrough in genetic engineering.
The real problem is our society pretends otherwise and allows these people to actively interfere with those who COULD benefit from an education. Including (maybe, especially), the meager percentage of blacks with a normal IQ and above.
Posted by at 9:29 PM on May 21
“‘Teachers have to develop more tolerance’ said Roger Banks, a research analyst for the Council on Black Minnesotans. ‘Discipline is a teaching moment. This is where your abilities as a teacher come into play.’”
Wrong, wrong, wrong. Discipline is a teaching moment at HOME.
If the job isn’t performed at home, teachers have no choice but to eliminate the source of insubordination, disrespect, or disturbance.
Too much so-called ‘toleration’ is NOT a good thing.
Posted by Annoyed In Illinois at 10:04 PM on May 21
I’ve taught Middle and High School, I’ve seen what happens when the number of black “students” exceeds the flash point of about 20%, and it ain’t a pretty sight. It really is like something out of a movie.
Posted by Cliff Yablonski at 10:08 PM on May 21
If you think blacks behave badly now, just imagine what they’ll be like if enough white people either don’t vote at all, or vote for obama. It is enough to send chills up my spine to think that he may end up being president. I guess that would be ultimate in Affirmative Action.
Posted by greg at 11:02 PM on May 21
‘Keenan Hooper admits he has a motormouth”…I have a theory: If rap singers are looked up to as role models in the black community, logic would be that they would be ‘more desirable’. so, if the rap singer gets his pick of the females, as any alpha male would, then his offspring might bear some of his characteristics. Maybe Keenan inherited his rap singing fathers predisposition to ‘talk fast’. so, In the future, the ghettos of America ate going to be full of young black men with a gift of ‘talking fast in rhyme’…
Posted by toonces at 11:12 PM on May 21
Don’t forget, this is Minnesota, with that famous Scandinavian liberalism, racial or otherwise, in the already liberal public school system. This means that the suspension rate for blacks would probably be higher if the system was genuinely fair. Even with all the favoritism shown toward them, they’re still suspended a lot more than whites.
Posted by Question Diversity at 11:49 PM on May 21
…The easiest, most direct and most effective way to handle this problem is to simply make it optional for blacks to come to school…Given the choice, almost all will choose to stay home…”
9:29 PM:
I agree with the first part of your premise: I think the Libertarians are correct on this issue—education should not be mandatory; taxpayers should not be forced to pay for the education of children not their own.
As for ‘almost all will choose to stay home’—I disagree. My experience (in a past life, better forgotten) working with black ‘students’ was that suspension was the worst thing that could happen to them.
Many of these students come to school solely to raise hell, harass adults, disrupt the educational process as much as possible making sure no one learns, run amok, destroy property at will and rarely, if ever, suffer any consequences for their aberrant behavior—they live in the now, tomorrow doesn’t exist the future is an incomprehensible concept to them.
Staying at home is the last thing they want to do.
Richard Lynn writes:
“…Psychopathic personality would explain virtually all the differences in black and white behavior left unexplained by differences in IQ…for psychopathic personality, the mean and distribution are higher among blacks. The effect of this is that there are more black psychopaths and more psychopathic behavior among blacks….”
Lynn describes psychopathic behavior as characterized by:
“…poverty of emotional feelings, lack of remorse or shame, superficial charm, pathological lying, egocentricity, a lack of insight, absence of nervousness, an inability to love, impulsive antisocial acts, failure to learn from experience…and a lack of long-term goals….”
http://www.amren.com/ar/2002/07/index.html#cover
This describes exactly the type of behavior I’ve seen in black schools.
“…Suspension ‘gap’ = 15 point IQ gap + dysfunctional culture…”
Posted by Old Victorian at 6:51 PM on May 21
Succinct, brilliant, to the point—well done Old Vic.
Bon
Posted by BonBon at 1:11 AM on May 22
When the gap in the suspension rate between blacks and whites is discussed, there seems to the inference that blacks are somehow being treated unfairly. It is never mentioned that boys are suspended much more frequently than girls. It has nothing to with discrimination against boys, or blacks, but has everything to do with behavior.
As has been mentioned previously, suspending blacks may not help them, but it does help the other students who are able to learn better without the disruptive behavior of the offending students.
Posted by Cogitator at 6:25 AM on May 22
In a crazy world, the suspensions are blamed on racism by Whites.
In a sane world, the suspensions are blamed on unacceptable behavior by Blacks.
Posted by at 8:08 AM on May 22
This is a “duh factor” thing - there are a higher percentage of blacks getting suspended because there are a higher percentage of blacks misbehaving. Period. We have heard the same argument before - “a higher percent of blacks don’t graduate,” “a higher percent of blacks are in the jails,” etc., ad nauseam! I feel sorry for the teachers who are told to “tolerate more.”
Posted by Mai Opinion at 8:19 AM on May 22
““When you have a roomful of students who look like you, perhaps those relationships are easier. When they are different, it makes the intentionality of building those relationships ever more important.””
Perhaps the solution is to put black students in classes/schools with black teachers and administration.
““Teachers have to develop more tolerance. And the only way they can get that is through teacher training,” said Roger Banks, a research analyst for the Council on Black Minnesotans. “Discipline is a teaching moment. This is where your abilities as a teacher come into play.””
How about requiring the students to behave themsleves.
I remember back in the 80’s when I was in school, the black students were far more disruptive and when suspended would play the race card. I’m not saying there were no white students who were disruptive because there were, however it was 5 times greater among blacks. I know from personal experience. I also know that when whites were disruptive, they were kicked out too.
Posted by kc at 8:51 AM on May 22
“Minnesota (and, somewhat to a lesser extent, Iowa and Wisconsin) are seen as bastions of liberalism and “tolerance.””
Well, being from the South, these are the same people who, back in the 60’s, demanded we “racists” go to schools that were half black. All I have to say is welcome to our world.
Posted by at 9:00 AM on May 22
Let’s be unbiased and impartial. Have a study on how this all affects the education of white children. I’m sure it does. Aren’t they constantly telling us we must remain fair and equal to everyone?
“The average black IQ is 85”. Posted by at 9:29 PM on May 21
I’m not sure I believe that. But if it’s true, it certainly shows with enough social engineering ‘lowly’ blacks can outsmart us whites. It’s what I see everyday. Seems like they are laughing all the way to the bank of the Western world.
Posted by LHathaway at 9:49 AM on May 22
The solution to this situation is simple. Roger Banks, Meria Carstarphen, and Philip Miner can teach all classes for the black suspendees, a task for which they are apparently splendidly qualified. Of course, the students must be expected to achieve at the same level as all the other students. That is just to make sure that their students are not just given good grades for just showing up or engaging in some meaningless activities. Surely, Mr. Banks, Ms. Carstarphen, and Mr. Miner realize that one should always be willing to put one’s money where one’s mouth is and will leap at theis opportunity.
Posted by Bill Black at 10:27 AM on May 22
This is really a simple issue. When behavior is brought to the lowest common denominator all will be well. Solution: suspend more whites or let teachers teach from a secure booth and let mayhem prevail.
Posted by madmac at 11:05 AM on May 22
“Why don’t they ever study the issue of why Black’s can’t behave themselves? Why is it they always want a free ride? Where are their parents? Do they behave this way at home?”
They often do, and unfortunately there is nothing the parents can do about it. One of the most difficult things about being poor in the U.S. is the inability to manage your children. Middle-class parents can threaten to suspend allowances, take away video games and car keys, etc. Poor parents do not have these “carrots” to use in getting their children to behave. As a result, they must resort to “sticks” if you know what I mean. The problem is that if you leave the slightest mark or bruise, you will be in trouble with the law and lose what little you have. By the same token, you cannot evict wayward children because that is considered abandonment. One thing that would go a long way toward addressing some of these issues would be to restore parental authority in the home. Allow parents, many of whom regret their own mistakes, and desperately want to help their kids avoid them, to discipline their children as they see fit.
Punching a kid in the face for spilling milk is child abuse, doing the same because a child persisently refuses to follow the rules at school, obey curfew, refrain from drug use, etc. maybe the only thing that will give the kid a chance!
Posted by sofita at 11:09 AM on May 22
The racism here is that if this were about white students, it would be the behavior itself that would be worthy of chronical.
Posted by at 11:44 AM on May 22
A QUESTION FOR ANY MINNESOTAN:
I think I heard how Minnesota is a liberal haven and has VERY generous welfare and social services for people who dont want to work.
Is this correct/ Id like to hear from a resident how this effects the social fabric?
Posted by capt. kirkegaard at 12:02 PM on May 22
In response to Big Bills comments on the subject. Contrary to your assertions African-style education is at the opposite end of the spectrum. Those who are familiar with and/or have been schooled in Africa recognize that it is far more discipline oriented and organised. There is ZERO tolerance for noise and other disruptive behavior. The trends observed amongst black students have no origins in the African education system.
As an African living and schooling in the US, I am continually shocked at the level of indiscipline and disrespect I have observed in many Black and White American students. I think part of the problem ( aside from a lack of discipline and guidance in the home) is that school administrations have been rendered powerless in the name of upholding student rights. Every form of discipline is overly scrutinized and discouraged. The students now have the power in the class setting. This is equivalent to a parent submitting and handing over power to their child…….its disastrous!
Posted by at 12:18 PM on May 22
When I went to school, all of the behavior cited in the article was rare and not tolerated. Is there really a problem here? Maybe the “cultural differences” should be addressed by permanent removal from the school system to an alternative setting more appropriate for the different “learning styles” of blacks. What better way to prepare most of the black students for their next alternative setting. PRISON.
Posted by NewarkBeef at 12:26 PM on May 22
“Black children across the country are suspended more often than whites.”
I find this sentence odd. Very odd. I would bet this is found WORLD WIDE. Anyway, the fact that this is nation-wide should make any Sociologist or Psychologist perk up. What a simple research project for a dissertation. Execpt it would never be published.
When you have a result as constant as this, nation-wide, then the cause of this effect is basic. If the school district, town, temperature, population density, language, air-pressure, latitude/longitude, etc. vary all over the place, but the RESULT remains the same, then the cause is GENETIC.
Blacks do “worse” because they are…..black.
Posted by LOGIC at 12:26 PM on May 22
My child goes to a school that is probably about 45% black. There are sometimes disturbances at the school including some serious brawls. On more than one occasion I thought about taking my kid out this place. The Principal got together with some us parents who have kids in advanced placement and offered us a deal if we kept them enrolled. Our kids come in 30 minutes after normal class starts. Classes are held in an adjacent building and lunch is scheduled at a different time than everyone else. There is virtually no contact with the other students. The only drawback for some parents is driving them to school and picking them up but that’s something I’ve always done.
Posted by at 6:15 PM on May 22
Talk to any teacher off the record and they will all tell you the same thing. Black students are their worst nightmare. Once blacks reach a certain number their general disruptiveness makes it impossible to teach.
Posted by at 8:43 PM on May 22
I don’t know that I’ve taught enough black students to say from personal experience that they are more likely to misbehave than whites students. However, the black students at my school were less accepting of punishment and immediately screamed “racism” when they were held to the same standard as other students.
This is not an issue of “cultural understanding” or more teacher training. It isn’t possible to conduct a lesson when students are running around, swearing and shouting down the teacher. Hopefully, the administrators won’t have enough pull to sacrifice the learning opportunity of the rest of the students to keep a brat in class just because he is black.
Posted by Disgruntled at 9:49 PM on May 22
What say we apply Ocum’s Razor to this and look for the least complicated, most obvious answer:
Blacks are sent home more because they won’t behave.
How’s that?
Posted by Teenationalist at 8:41 AM on May 23
Yesterday I attended a high school graduation ceremony. Approximately 30% of the graduates were Black. One hundred percent of those arriving late, some even 30 to 40 minutes after the start of the ceremony, were Black. Blacks comprised 100% of those were were up moving around and distracting others during the ceremony. At the start, the audience was asked to turn off their cellphones and to refrain from using artificial noise makers so that the names of other students wouldn’t be drowned out. Out of almost 700 kids graduating, there were about a dozen incidents where parents and/or friends used artificial noise makers, and yep, you guessed it, they were all Black. So if the adults behave rudely, and pointedly ignore the rules, what do you expect from their kids?
Posted by Sarah Jane Cagle at 2:20 PM on May 23
“I think I heard how Minnesota is a liberal haven and has VERY generous welfare and social services for people who dont want to work.
Is this correct/ Id like to hear from a resident how this effects the social fabric?”
Works fine, when there’s only 20 people collecting…
I am a resident of some other state, nevertheless, a resident.
Posted by mrs. cremus, assisted by mrs. poon tang at 6:17 PM on May 23
I teach in a circumstance where my students are ALL expelled or removed from regular high schools. My classes are about 95 % black.
I justify my very light teaching load (ha ha) and outrageously high salary (ha ha)on the fact that I am babysitting the worst of the worst.
I would love to let any one of a number of liberal weenies take over room “210” and see how they fare.
Posted by at 8:03 PM on May 23
“One thing that would go a long way toward addressing some of these issues would be to restore parental authority in the home. Allow parents, many of whom regret their own mistakes, and desperately want to help their kids avoid them, to discipline their children as they see fit.
Punching a kid in the face for spilling milk is child abuse, doing the same because a child persisently refuses to follow the rules at school, obey curfew, refrain from drug use, etc. maybe the only thing that will give the kid a chance!”
Posted by sofita at 11:09 AM on May 22
Your point is duly noted by me, sofita. Many children are not given the proper amount of discipline at home, and that often leads to problems when these children grow up.
The term “spare the rod, spoil the child” is usually appropriate in today’s socially liberal times, as I see children (and young adults) behaving much worse than they did just 15 or 20 years ago. I have little doubt most that these youngsters didn’t get enough discipline at home. The social manners of the under-25 crowd today, as a general rule, are downright appalling.
I am not exempting young whites from my analysis, either. The white kids may not be quite as loud or violent as black or Hispanic kids, but it has been quite a while since I have heard a white kid say “please” or “thank you” in public.
I have no doubts that children need to be treated more firmly, reversing the trend of hyper-permissive parenting that seems to be sweeping the land.
Punching children in the face is excessive, however. I have no problems with spanking, though, under the right circumstances.
Posted by Old Victorian at 9:11 PM on May 23
“A QUESTION FOR ANY MINNESOTAN:
I think I heard how Minnesota is a liberal haven and has VERY generous welfare and social services for people who dont want to work.
Is this correct/ Id like to hear from a resident how this effects the social fabric?”
Posted by capt. kirkegaard at 12:02 PM on May 22
I think that Minnesota’s welfare state does not impact the demographics as much as some people may think. Yes, it is true that many blacks from Chicago (and, to a lesser extent, Milwaukee and Detroit) moved to the Twin Cities in the 1960’s and ‘70’s, but since Illinois has always had a fairly generous welfare state as well, I would say that many of the blacks moved to the Twin Cities because of weaker punishments for violent crimes, drug dealing, etc..
That said, the Twin Cities metro, as a general rule, as a fairly low percentage of American blacks, even today. Most of them are concentrated in Minneapolis, St. Paul, and in suburbs in northern Hennepin County. You won’t find too many blacks in the “exurbs.” As far as cities outside of the Twin Cities metro, there aren’t many blacks at all. As a result, Duluth, Rochester, Mankato, and St. Cloud are all fairly safe.
On the other hand, the numbers of Hmong, Somalis, and Hispanics (mostly Mexicans and Guatemalans) has increased steadily, in no small part due to Catholic and Lutheran “do-gooders.” This explains the fairly rapid “white flight” that has taken place outside the I-494/694 loop since about 1990 or so, and why the Twin Cities metro is so physically big. The far western suburbs are nearly 100 miles (yes, ONE HUNDRED) from the far eastern suburbs.
Posted by Old Victorian at 9:43 PM on May 23
I am a math teacher at a high school school where the two largest ethnic groups are Hispanics and Blacks. The racial gap is tremendous not just with regard to academic performance, but especially regarding disciplinary issues. White kids respond much stronger to suspensions than Hispanics, who in turn, respond much stronger to suspensions than Blacks. Black, even at a very young age, are much less likely to respond to punishment. It’s very fascinating.
Posted by at 3:57 AM on May 24