Stephan Thernstrom and Abigail Thernstrom, Real Clear Politics, May 6, 2008
In his recent incendiary remarks, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Jr. claimed that criticism of his views is nothing less “an attack on the black church launched by people who know nothing about the African-American religious tradition.” {snip}
Happily, Chicago’s Trinity Church is an outlier in that regard. Most black churchgoers belong to congregations that are overwhelmingly African-American and are affiliated with one of the historically black religious denominations such as the African Methodist Episcopal Church (AME) or the National Baptist Convention. Rev. Wright’s Trinity Church, on the other hand, is a predominantly black branch of a white denomination that is not part of “the African-American religious tradition.” The United Church of Christ (known until 1957 as the Congregational Church) has a little over a million members; a mere 4 percent of them are black. Fewer than 50,000 blacks in the entire nation worship at a UCC church.
In contrast, 98 percent of the National Baptist Convention’s 4 million members are African Americans. Add in black Methodists and Pentecostals, as well as other black Baptists, and the total comes to more than 14 million members of an organized, predominantly African-American church. These churches include a substantial majority of all black adults today. In terms of sheer demographic weight, they clearly represent the “African-American religious tradition”—as Rev. Wright’s branch of a overwhelmingly white denomination does not.
{snip}
Some of these churches are led by figures like Rev. Wright, an adherent of what is called black liberation theology, which rejects racial integration and stresses the experience of black bondage. But not many. C. Eric Lincoln’s mid-1980s survey of the leaders of 2,150 black churches found that two-thirds of them said they had not been influenced by “any of the authors and thinkers of black liberation theology.” Indeed, 63 percent did not believe that the black church had “a different mission from the white church.” A third did not even think it was “important have black figures in [their] Sunday school literature.”
This integrationist vision is at one with the values of most Americans. A glance at the National Baptist Convention and the AME web sites is revealing. They feature what one might expect of any religious denomination—a statement of their creeds, the tenets of the theology and worship practices that distinguish their faith from others. There is almost no indication that these churches are predominantly African American. The closest they come to mentioning race is the AME’s statement that its basic beliefs do not “differ from what all Methodists believe.” The church, we learn, separated from the main Methodist body two centuries ago because of “man’s intolerance of his fellow man, based on the color of his skin.”
The web sites of Rev. Wright’s Trinity Church and the national body to which it belong stand in shocking contrast. {snip}
It is no accident that Rev. Wright’s Trinity Church is affiliated with the highly progressive United Church of Christ. The UCC had its first Jeremiah Wright back in the 1960s, when it tolerated the activities of Rev. Albert Cleage of Detroit, a pioneer preacher of the gospel of Black Power. Cleage was determined to “dehonkify” Jesus. Jesus was black, he insisted, and a black revolutionary. {snip}
The web site of the UCC currently features plans for a May 18 “sacred conversation on race” in which white participants will need to acknowledge “the sins” of their “ancestors” and their own “failures to confront racism.” Non-whites who have “suffered the ravages of racism” will be expected only to keep their “rightful indignation” and their “temptation to despair” under control. The conversation is desperately needed, we are told, because “the quality of life for the majority of racial and ethnic people is worse today in many ways than it was during the 1960s”—a ludicrous claim.
Clearly, Rev. Wright does not speak for mainstream black churches—and he has done them a gross disservice by claiming to do so. {snip}
Original article
(Posted on May 7, 2008)
Comments
There was a black lady on national news (CNN or FOX one) a couple a weeks ago said it was typical fare . Remembering the 60s,70s and 80s I see little reason to doubt it’s true . Everyone knows their churches have always been the hub of their political movements . And I don’t have to be reminded that there are a lot of truly good blacks ,especially in the South . I know they are out there because I live in the black belt . But that does in no way alleviate the situation that our people , European-Americans are slowly being routed and destroyed by their people or at least by their skewed prospective on how things should be . There’s no malice here , we just want to survive as a culture and have our children tought by those who look like them and share their beliefs and for them to be given heroes who look like them and share a common history with them .Otherwise we WILL NOT SURVIVE . Why is that too much to ask ?
Posted by at 6:22 PM on May 7
Let’s face facts: The Thernstroms appear to be congenitally incapable of being honest with themselves, or anybody else, on the issue of race. These are the same Thernstroms that have written on race in the past, claiming that the racial gap in learning will close, but only if we carefully heed their advice. See here:
http://www.amazon.com/No-Excuses-Closing-Racial-Learning/dp/074326522X/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210199664&sr=8-3
As far as what they teach in black churches, my experience is admittedly limited. I’ve been in very few of them. But that doesn’t mean the Thernstroms are right. Because if they are right it becomes very difficult to exlain why ninety-plus percent of blacks who have voted in this latest election cycle have done so for Obama. It also becomes very difficult to explain why this is one of the most popular black churches in Chicago, and why black callers to talk radio support Obama and Wright by a margin of about twenty to one. And it is in direct contradiction with Donna Brazile’s recent apologia, where she explained, “Wright is one of the more moderate black preachers”. Should I believe the Thernstroms have spent more time in black churches than Ms Brazile? Who should know better on this matter?
But the Thernstroms do have a point about the United Church of Christ (UCC). For those who don’t know, the UCC is what remains of the original Puritan church in New England. And the liberalism of this church is legendary. But since liberal Yankees gave up on religion about the time the South was winning the argument on the biblical foundations for slavery, I say to the Thernstroms, so what if this church is liberal? Unlike conservative churches, the UCC is now tiny and insignificant. How many people would have a clue as to what the UCC is?
The Thernstroms also make much of Wright’s ties to liberation theology. But, again, so what? The only reason any kind of liberalism is embraced by blacks is because it weakens whites and their societies. And this is the real meat of the issue: Wright, and other blacks, aren’t so much liberal as they are racially and ethnically nationalists. And that’s what the Thernstroms, along with other alleged conservatives, just can’t handle.
Posted by Dunnyveg at 6:50 PM on May 7
Check out you tube and you will see many black pastors comdemning Jeremiah Wright and his racist message.
Posted by Spartan24 at 6:54 PM on May 7
Bring out the PR damage control. Wonder how true this article really is? They know many Whites are upset and now they have to downplay their fears. Can’t have Whitey think that Blacks are racist, now can we? I really don’t care what Black churchgoers believe. Their actions speak louder than their words anyway.
Posted by at 7:46 PM on May 7
wow! if you go to the united Church of Christ website, look at all the bantering between their members by posted comments over the great liar Wright! Talk about a house divided! The Wright-lovers have apparently made themselves the vangard of what is right and what is wrong by calling anyone who disagrees with them “un-Christian racists.” They are more willing to try and understand where Wright is coming from than they are to listen to the opinions of members of their own congregations! What a freakin circus that church must be!
Posted by McVic at 8:14 PM on May 7
TUCC is an anomaly for the UCC. The UCC is about as left-wing as a Christian denomination can get. It started out as a conglomeration of German Calvinist (aka Reformed, aka Evangelical) churches. It started out slightly more liberal than the average Protestant division. So this attracted liberals who weren’t Krauts. This made the UCC even more liberal, which attracted more liberals, feeding the vicious cycle, until we have what we have today with the UCC, a denomination that essentially believes that left-wing political doctrine is in and of itself Jesus Christ, and is the element of salvation.
Posted by Question Diversity at 8:18 PM on May 7
“Clearly, Rev. Wright does not speak for mainstream black churches—and he has done them a gross disservice by claiming to do so.”
I don’t know anything about these two writers, but from what they have to say here it’s very apparent they’re doing their best to try to clean up the black image, using black churches as their subject, but obviously implying more, wanting to make it appear as if anti-white hatred isn’t the norm within the black population.
I’m just wondering why they don’t expose the vast amount of unjust black animus towards whites, which would pressure blacks to perhaps change their attitudes somewhat, if it is truly congeniality between the races they desire. Instead they submit a puff piece that could be basically correct, but only as a matter of degree, because there’s just too many blacks ADMITTING that anti-white rhetoric is commonplace in the churches, and it certainly doesn’t dispel the fact that there’s just too much anti-white animosity by almost the entire black population.
If there are any good points about this black running for the presidency, it would be that anti-white hatred has been exposed to whites who are conservative but out-of-touch and knew nothing of it, and it has caused those liberal bugs who lived in the woodwork to come out and declare themselves and reveal to all of us what absolute mindless fools we have within the white community.
Posted by Robert Kelly at 9:24 PM on May 7
Did you ever watch any blacks at their churchs on the religious channels???? Jumping all over the place…it’s like watching a barrel of monkeys fighting over a bannana….bet its even better at rev’s church or I should say his cult meeting!!
Posted by lydia at 9:29 PM on May 7
Not your usual “See, we told ya so!” AmRen article. Nice to know that Wright and his church really aren’t typical.
One can’t help concluding, though, that black churches are failing to hone the moral compass of their congregations just like everything else black is failing: “Love Thy Neighbor”, “Thou Shalt not Steal”, stuff like that…
Posted by Kevin at 12:48 AM on May 8
“Clearly, Rev. Wright does not speak for mainstream black churches—and he has done them a gross disservice by claiming to do so.”
Thus, we are logically to conclude that Comrade Obama has followed a church outside the “mainstream” of most black churches for the last 20 years. Just what does that say about him?
I think the “Church Lady” of SNL fame has that answer to that: “Well, isn’t that special…”
Posted by John PM at 6:51 AM on May 8
Well, now that we’ve heard from all the self professed experts on the various theologies, lets get down to brass tacks.”The quote Christian church” is not supposed to be about denominations. It is in absolute simple fact, about the intertwinement of the old and new testaments, as they relate to the salvation of lost souls, through the blood of THE LORD JESUS CHRIST. GOD has given each person a free choice to accept,or reject his son. Who himself has said, “No one comes to the Father, save by me”! He has also said “If you are not for me you are against me”, and “Beware of wolves in sheep’s clothing”.
Posted by The Old Sage at 10:23 AM on May 8
I am sure that there are relatively normal black christian churches but the fact that Wright’s church exists and has thousands of loyal parishioners and that Obama was one for the last 20 years does say something about what our current system allows in terms of organized anti-white hatred groups.
Imagine a large white church which preached white racial superiority, constantly demeaned blacks and condemned the country—-just how long would such an entity survive? Then ask yourself if a white presidential candidate had been a loyal member of such a church for 20 years what chance would he have to be nominated to anything more than county dog catcher. The dual standards screech to the heavens.
Posted by at 1:07 PM on May 8
>>”Clearly, Rev. Wright does not speak for mainstream black churches…”
And will members of these “mainstream black churches” vote overwhelmingly for Barack Hussein Obama, who for two decades has been closely associated with the extremist Jeremiah Wright and a member of Wright’s black separatist church?
If so, then they are not as far removed from the madness of black liberation theology as folks such as Stephan Thernstrom (of Harvard University) and Abigail Thernstrom (of the Manhattan Institute) would have us believe. s
Posted by Sarge at 4:33 PM on May 8
I’m a little concerned here (well, more than a little) because I’ve done the math. Let’s say that BHO went to church every week for 20 years, so, that’s 52 times a year x 20 years, equals 1,040 times that he went to church. Let’s say that he spent about three hours in the whole process of getting ready for church, traveling to church, being in the church before, during, and after the service, maybe going out for coffee after church, then driving home, changing out of church clothes, and relaxing. That’s about three hours right there, right? And that’s just once a week, not counting the wedding, the baptisms, and other church activities, and only going on Sunday.
So now we have 1,040 trips to church at about three hours per trip. Does that sound right to anyone, or am I just in a hurry here (got to get to work to pay for people who won’t)and did my math get fuzzy? At 1,040 trips x three hours per trip, that’s 3,120 hours, during which he allegedly wasn’t really aware of what was going on, i.e. the “message” or the meaning of the reason for making the trip to church. Why? Was he daydreaming? Thinking about a football or other sports game? Mentally “gone fishing” in his daydreams? I can see not thinking about church while one is driving, although one would have to think about parking, but I’m intrigued. What WAS he thinking? And if he was daydreaming, was his wife daydreaming too? If she was, that’s 6,240 hours wasted between them.
If the average working person works, say, 40 hours a week (and many of us paying for the ones who won’t work, work more) then between them, the Obamas were wasting 156 weeks of work time between them by filling the pews and daydreaming for essentially three years. Unless, of course, they were thinking about work at church… but of course what they heard at church wouldn’t affect their attitudes at work, right? Kind of like background music at work, I guess. That means we can change all the background “rap” music stations at work and nobody will know the difference, say, if we change them to country music or classical, because whatever’s going on around us will be filtered out by what we are thinking (or daydreaming) about.
Two more thoughts: I have a very nice bridge to sell… and,
Do we want ANYONE in the White House who will be daydreaming 75% of the time (four years) they plan to be there? 75% of four being three years, of course…
Feel free to check my math!
Posted by at 9:55 AM on May 9
Actually, I think that Trinity was Evangelical and Reformed, not Congregationalist. The E&R Church was German-American denomination absorbed by the UCC.
Some years ago a met a young man who was transfering from the UCC seminary to a MO-Synod Lutheran seminary. He described the UCC as “not united, not one church, and just barely Christian.”
A year or so ago I went to the Wellington Avenue Congregationalist Church, the UCC in my neighborhood. The woman leading the service gave a talk on the teachings of some guru. I never went back again.
Peace,
Allan
Posted by at 1:06 PM on May 9
I went to a black church once, it was like watching the old Ed Sullivan show, or Ted Macks Amateur hour. First came a singing group dressed in coustumes that had more colors than Crayola has crayons, they sang and danced. Then came a guy telling jokes about Jesus. Then came a really emotional
“healing” with lots of fainting, and tears, and miracles. With hallalujahs screamed and feet stamping. A 300 lb black lady fainted backwards and took out our whole pew. Then came the sermon in which we were told Jesus wanted us all to be rich.
Then testimonials about how prayer and Jesus bought them a new car. Then came more singing troupes, music and finally with everyone exhausted came the retreat to the restaurant for a 6 course breakfast. An amazing experience and fun, but when looked back I couldnt remember a single quiet contemplative moment.
Posted by at 3:48 PM on May 9
