Black America: Nearer to Overcoming

WHEN Roland Fryer was about 15, a friend asked him what he would be doing when he was 30. He said he would probably be dead. It was a reasonable prediction. At the time, he was hanging out with a gang and selling drugs on the side. Young black men in that line of work seldom live long. But Mr Fryer survived. At 30, he won tenure as an economics professor at Harvard. That was four months ago.

Mr Fryer’s parents split up when he was very young. His father was a maths teacher who went off the rails: young Roland once had to borrow money to bail him out of jail. His great-aunt and great-uncle ran a crack business: young Roland would watch them cook cocaine powder into rocks of crack in a frying pan in the kitchen. Several of his relatives went to prison. But Mr Fryer backed away from a life of crime and won a sports scholarship to the University of Texas. He found he enjoyed studying, and was rather good at it. By the time he was 25, the president of Harvard was hectoring him to join the faculty.

Mr Fryer now applies his supple mind to the touchy, tangled issue of racial inequality. Why are African-Americans so much less prosperous than whites? Why do so many black children flounder in school? Why do so many young black men languish behind bars? Why are stories like Mr Fryer’s considered so surprising?

Black and white Americans tend to produce different answers to these questions, and there is also heated disagreement within both groups. Some blacks think their glass is three-quarters full; others think it three-quarters empty. Optimists can point to obvious improvements. Little more than four decades ago, blacks in the South could not vote. This year, a black man may be elected president. Under segregation, southern blacks were barred from white schools, neighbourhoods and opportunities. Now, racial discrimination is both illegal and taboo. Blacks have pierced nearly every glass ceiling. The secretary of state, the boss of American Express and the country’s most popular entertainer (Oprah Winfrey) are all black.

Life for the average African-American has also improved remarkably. The median black household income has risen from $22,300 (in 2006 dollars) in 1967 to $32,100 in 2006. Black life expectancy has soared from 34 in 1900 to 73 today. Most blacks today are middle class.

Yes, say the pessimists, but the gap between what blacks and whites earn and what they learn, which narrowed steadily between the 1940s and the late 1980s, has more or less frozen since then. Blacks’ median household income is still only 63% of whites’. Academically, black children at 17 perform no better than a white 13-year-old. Blacks die, on average, five years earlier than whites. And though the black middle class has grown immensely, many blacks are still stuck in crime-scorched, nearly jobless ghettos.

What ails black America? Public debate falls between two poles. Some academics and most civil-rights activists stress the role played by racial discrimination. It may no longer be overt, they argue, but it is still widespread and severe. Julian Bond of the National Association for the Advancement of Coloured People reckons that racism is still “epidemic” in America.

Black conservatives, while never denying that racism persists, think it much less severe than before and no longer the main obstacle to black advancement. Bill Cosby, a veteran comedian, tours the country urging blacks to concentrate on improving themselves: to study hard, to work hard and—especially—to shun the culture of despair that grips the ghetto.

The debate is often bitter. Michael Eric Dyson, a leftish academic, argues that the black middle class has “lost its mind” if it believes Mr Cosby’s argument downplaying the importance of race. Larry Elder, a conservative pundit, wrote a book about blacks who blame racism for nearly everything called: “Stupid Black Men”.

Mr Fryer eschews histrionics in favour of hard data. He is obsessed with education, which he calls “the civil-rights battleground of the 21st century”. Why do blacks lag behind whites in school? Mr Fryer is prepared to test even the most taboo proposition. Are blacks genetically predisposed to be less intelligent than whites? With a collaborator from the University of Chicago, Mr Fryer debunked this idea. Granted, blacks score worse than whites on intelligence tests. But Mr Fryer looked at data from new tests on very young children. At eight months to a year, he found almost no racial gap, and that gap disappeared entirely when he added controls for such things as low birth weight.

If the gap is absent in babies, this suggests it is caused by environmental factors, which can presumably be fixed. But first they must be identified. Do black children need better nutrition? More stimulation in the home? Better schools? Probably all these things matter, but how much? “I don’t know,” says Mr Fryer. It is a phrase that, to his credit, he uses often.

Cool to be dumb

His most striking contribution to the debate so far has been to show that black students who study hard are accused of “acting white” and are ostracised by their peers. Teachers have known this for years, at least anecdotally. Mr Fryer found a way to measure it. He looked at a large sample of public-school children who were asked to name their friends. To correct for kids exaggerating their own popularity, he counted a friendship as real only if both parties named each other. He found that for white pupils, the higher their grades, the more popular they were. But blacks with good grades had fewer black friends than their mediocre peers. In other words, studiousness is stigmatised among black schoolchildren. It would be hard to imagine a more crippling cultural norm.

Mr Fryer has some novel ideas about fixing this state of affairs. New York’s school system is letting him test a couple of them on its children. One is to give pupils cash incentives. If a nine-year-old completes an exam, he gets $5. For getting the answers right, he gets more money, up to about $250 a year. The notion of bribing children to study makes many parents queasy. Mr Fryer’s response is: let’s see if it works and drop it if it doesn’t.

Another idea, being tested on a different group of children, is to hand out free mobile telephones. The phones do not work during school hours, and children can recharge them with call-minutes only by studying. (The phone companies were happy to help with this.) The phones give the children an incentive to study, and Mr Fryer a means to communicate with them. He talks of “re-branding” academic achievement to make it cool. He knows it will not be easy. He recalls hearing drug-pushers in the 1980s joking “Just say no!” as they handed over the goods, mocking Nancy Reagan’s anti-drug slogan.

Blacks who do well in school are hungrily recruited by universities, which often admit them with lower test scores than are required of whites or Asians. The bar was first lowered for blacks out of a sense that America owes them a debt for past discrimination. Now universities are more likely to argue that racial diversity is valuable for its own sake.

But racial preferences are unpopular among whites, and the most blatant ones are, increasingly, illegal. The University of Michigan used to give applicants more points for being black than for getting a perfect score on the entrance exam. The Supreme Court deemed this unconstitutional in 2003, but ruled that less explicit preferences might be allowable.

When voters are asked if they want to ban racial preferences in the public sphere, they generally say yes. Since the 1990s, three states have passed referendums barring racial preferences, and four more may do so in November. Opponents of racial preferences argue that they are bad for blacks, too.

A study by Richard Sander of the University of California, Los Angeles, found that when the bar is lowered for black applicants to law school, they are admitted to institutions where they cannot cope. Many who drop out of top-tier colleges might have thrived at slightly less competitive ones. Mr Sander calculated that the net effect of pro-black preferences was actually to reduce the number of blacks who passed the bar exam. That is, racial preferences for black law students result in fewer black lawyers. John McWhorter, the author of “Winning the Race: Beyond the Crisis in Black America”, argues that lowering the bar for blacks also reduces their incentive to excel at school. “As long as black students have to do only so well, they will do only so well,” he says.

For every dollar that a white man earns, a black man makes only 70 cents. Such figures are sometimes bandied around to imply that nearly all of this gap is caused by discrimination. That is bunk. If a firm could really get the same work done 30% more cheaply simply by hiring blacks, someone would have noticed and made a fortune doing just that.

That said, blacks certainly face barriers in the job market. Two economists, Marianne Bertrand and Sendhil Mullainathan, sent out 5,000 replies to job advertisements in Boston and Chicago. Each fictitious applicant was randomly assigned either a black-sounding name, such as Jamal or Lakisha, or a white one, such as Emily or Greg. For every ten jobs the “whites” applied for, they were offered one interview. The “blacks” had to post 15 letters to elicit the same response. Clearly, some managers are racist. But many are not. And many firms are desperate to hire and promote blacks, if only to avoid lawsuits.

The short straw

Looked at more closely, the statistics are murky. White men are more likely to work than black men. The proportion of black men participating in the labour force fell from 74% in 1972 to 67% last year. Whites start more businesses, too. Only 5% of firms are black-owned, though blacks account for 13% of America’s population.

A black woman with a degree earns as much as a white woman with a degree. But with a professional degree, the black woman earns 30% more (see chart 2). That does not prove that law firms discriminate in favour of black women—though they may. Another explanation is that a skilled white woman is more likely to have a rich husband (or indeed any husband), and so may have less incentive to maximise her earnings.

Even when blacks earn as much as whites, the whites are typically far wealthier. In 2000 the average white household in the bottom fifth of income-earners had net assets of $24,000. The figure for blacks was a piffling $57. Whites in the middle fifth were five times wealthier than their black counterparts.

Partly this is because whites inherit more. But it is also because of different approaches to investment. Blacks are more likely to put their money in the bank, notes Mr Fryer. Whites are more likely to invest in shares, which generate higher returns. Compound this over a couple of generations and the effect is colossal.

Another crucial factor is the collapse of the black family. The proportion of black babies born out of wedlock has nearly doubled since 1970, to 69%. And 70% of these births are to mothers who are truly alone, not cohabiting. Stable two-parent families accumulate wealth more easily than single-parent homes. Two salaries stretch further, two pairs of hands mean less need for paid child care. Two-parent families also find it easier to raise well-adjusted, studious children, who go on to start stable families of their own. Broken families, if middle class, find it harder to stay that way. And if they start in the ghetto, they find it harder to break out.

“Black life is not valued!” booms Michael Walrond, a popular pastor in Harlem. He is referring to the news that three police officers were acquitted of all charges after shooting dead an unarmed black man, Sean Bell, a few hours before his wedding. The cops fired 50 bullets, but the pastor says he is outraged by the figure of 31. Members of his mostly black flock know immediately what he means. Two of the officers were black and all of them thought Mr Bell had a gun. But it was the white officer who reloaded and fired 31 rounds. Mr Walrond’s angry sermon draws cheers.

Afterwards, in his office, he agrees that it is not only whites who devalue black lives: black criminals do too. Mr Walrond, like many inner-city clerics, works hard to reform those who stray. But like Barack Obama’s former pastor, Jeremiah Wright, he tends to assume the worst about his country. He finds Mr Wright’s theory that the government concocted the AIDS virus to kill blacks “credible”.

He refers to the Tuskegee experiment between 1932 and 1972 when some doctors in Alabama deliberately neglected to treat black syphilis patients in order to study the disease’s progression. That was an abomination. But it is hardly evidence that the government is bent on genocide.

From alienation to despair

Is the state racist? Those who think so often point to the criminal-justice system. A startling 11% of black males aged 20-34 are behind bars. Overall, black men are seven times more likely to be incarcerated than white men. Until recently, sentences for crack offenders (who are mostly black) were much harsher than those for powder-cocaine offenders (mostly white). Ex-convicts in several states are barred from voting, a penalty that deters no crime but signals to wrongdoers that they can never be full citizens again. “We are becoming a nation of jailers, and racist jailers at that,” reckons Glenn Loury, an economist.

Not so, says Heather Mac Donald of the Manhattan Institute, a conservative think-tank. Blacks are more likely to be jailed because they commit more crimes, she argues. In 2005 the black murder rate was seven times higher than that for whites and Latinos combined. Harsh crack laws account only for a smidgeon of the disparity in incarceration rates. In 2006 blacks were 37.5% of state prisoners; exclude drug offenders and that figure drops to 37%. And since black criminals’ victims are mostly black, some argue that locking more of them up has saved many black lives.

In other ways, it is far from clear that the government is trying to keep blacks down. Affirmative-action policies mean that it provides jobs for a disproportionate number of them. It also allows blacks who own small businesses to charge 10% more than whites and still win federal contracts. “Small” is generously defined. A firm with 1,500 employees can qualify. Its black owner can be worth $750,000—excluding his home and business—and still be deemed “economically disadvantaged”.

Yet many blacks feel alienated in a way that is “vastly disproportionate to real-life stimulus,” frets Mr McWhorter. When New Orleans flooded, some speculated that the government had blown up the levees. Even cooler heads believed that the botched response stemmed from George Bush’s indifference to black suffering.

Alienation has consequences. Amid the revolutionary fervour of the 1960s, says Mr McWhorter, many blacks learned that “America’s racism rendered it unworthy of any self-regarding black person’s embrace and that therefore blacks were exempt from mainstream standards of conduct.” The conventional wisdom about ghettos—best expressed in William Julius Wilson’s book “When Work Disappears”—is that inner cities decayed because factories moved away. But the jobs often moved only a couple of bus rides away. Noting that millions of blacks moved halfway across the country to find work during the “great migration” in the early 20th century, Mr McWhorter wonders why so many of their descendants failed to follow suit.

He offers two explanations. First, a huge expansion of open-ended welfare in the 1960s enabled mothers to subsist without work. Until the mid-1990s, welfare often paid better than an entry-level job. Second, the counter-culture taught young blacks that working for “chump change” was beneath their dignity.

Bill Clinton fixed welfare and pushed millions of jobless women into work. Violent crime has also fallen sharply since the 1990s, despite the best efforts of gangster rappers to glorify it. Previously dysfunctional cities, such as New York and Washington, DC, are now soberly governed and better places to live in.

Yet many African-Americans are intensely gloomy. In a poll last year, only 44% said they expected life for blacks to get better, down from 57% in 1986. The subprime mortgage crisis, which will cost many black families their homes this year, will surely deepen the gloom.

Some blacks contend that racism has simply gone underground. Ellis Cose, a journalist, once wrote that even middle-class blacks suffer constant subtle racial slights, and that these are so distressing that they “are in the end most of what life is”. Other blacks think he exaggerates. Sometimes, says Mr McWhorter, the assistant trailing you in a store is just trying to sell you something.

If Barack Obama can only . . .

Taking the longer view, there is much to cheer. In every way that can be measured (a big caveat), racism has diminished in the past two generations. Inter-racial marriages are up sevenfold since 1970. Young Americans are far less likely to express racial animosity than their elders, suggesting that as old bigots die, they will not be replaced. And if Mr Obama becomes president, it would “raise the ceiling for everyone,” says Robert Franklin, the president of Morehouse, a black college in Atlanta.

“For me, racism is not going to be an obstacle,” says DeWayne Powell, a student at Morehouse. He recalls an incident when, en route to drop off his college application, he stopped to ask for directions. A white receptionist asked sneeringly whether he could read. “I laughed,” he says. “I thought: I’m on my way to fulfil my destiny, and you’re stuck behind that glass.”

Original article

(Posted on May 9, 2008)

Comments

“Life for the average African-American has also improved remarkably. The median black household income has risen from $22,300 (in 2006 dollars) in 1967 to $32,100 in 2006. Black life expectancy has soared from 34 in 1900 to 73 today. Most blacks today are middle class.”

And almost every one of the above improvements is due to white generosity in awarding AA jobs, school admissions, and grades, yet the black whining gets worse every year.

Reverend Jeremiah Wright, and the many black elitists like him are becoming more and more militant, with more and more hatefilled anti-white rhetoric coming from them, and their minions love it and shout their amens loudly and often.

The more these evil people get the more they complain and hate whitey for it.

Now the out-of-touch white fools on the radical left actually believe that making a black president is all that is necessary to gain black acceptance, completely unaware of how much they are hated.

Posted by Robert Kelly at 6:50 PM on May 9

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“Black America: Nearer to Overcoming”

Overcoming? Not quite right, Economist. Whitey gave them everything they have. Blacks never overcame nothing.

It is the other races of the US that have succeeded. They have earned their succes by hard work and some by intelligence, two things that are lacking in blacks, which is EXACTLY why they haven’t actually elevated their group one iota.

Trying to convince readers that blacks actually overcame anything, without affirmative action giveaways is the height of naivete and/or stupidity.

If what this article says is correct, then why did Obama and John Edwards say that America is in danger of losing most of its black males because of lack of achievement and high crime rates? That doesn’t sound like they overcame anything.

Posted by ice at 6:59 PM on May 9

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There’s more to being middle class than a middle class income, particularly when that paycheck comes from the government. Affirmative action has created a Potemkin Black middle class that cannot pass its prosperity on to its children, because middle class prosperity is rooted in intelligence and hard work. Blacks cannot pass on the qualities that they don’t have.

Posted by Schoolteacher at 7:01 PM on May 9

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I wish “The Economist” would use some econometrics to answer the question about whether racial discrimination is keeping blacks down. It’s an empiracle question that is easily testable, but wouldn’t make for such a long-winded article. The short answer is that once factors are controlled for the earnings gap disappears.

Why was there no mention that Asians earn more than Whites? Would that interfere with the author’s moral preening or just not fit the view of America as racist? Seems like a relevant question.

Posted by Lucky Louie at 7:52 PM on May 9

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There were a lot of wasted words here. Racism “is” still alive in America, as is obvious by all the racial ranting in this article. Just As blacks are artificially elevated, whites are being suppressed by a liberal idealogical government. Each action truly has an equal and opposite reaction. Yet it is clear that government intervention is designed to place whites, in a subservient position. “FEAR HUSSEIN!!”.

Posted by The Old Sage at 8:08 PM on May 9

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The ring of economic prosperity around Washington DC is proof that federal employees are being unfairly enriched.

Posted by at 8:26 PM on May 9

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Are blacks genetically predisposed to be less intelligent than whites? With a collaborator from the University of Chicago, Mr Fryer debunked this idea. Granted, blacks score worse than whites on intelligence tests. But Mr Fryer looked at data from new tests on very young children. At eight months to a year, he found almost no racial gap, and that gap disappeared entirely when he added controls for such things as low birth weight.

This man rigged the data in ONE study and he and the Economist are prepared to declare the last 100 years of school tests, military tests and any other academic test you can imagine invalid. Where is the intellectual rigor and honesty?

Posted by at 8:28 PM on May 9

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Blacks who do well in school are hungrily recruited by universities, which often admit them with lower test scores than are required of whites or Asians. The bar was first lowered for blacks out of a sense that America owes them a debt for past discrimination. Now universities are more likely to argue that racial diversity is valuable for its own sake.

Yes, the universities will never run out of excuses to discriminate against whites.

I certainly don’t see the growth of the black middle class as a bad thing in itself, but I do wonder to what degree it is a result of the artificial life support of affirmative action. Certainly most blacks think it’s important, given how the great majority of them fight tooth and nail against all initiatives to end it. That disparity in incomes between white and black female college graduates with professional degrees strongly suggests that many employers are desperate to meet their quotas.

Posted by WR the elder at 8:35 PM on May 9

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“The more these evil people get the more they complain and hate whitey for it.”

Correction – The more we become educated, understand history, and how the world works the more we become intolerant of unjust systems.

Posted by Inkpaduta at 9:34 PM on May 9

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My, my my! Can’t you guys ever give some Blacks credit where it is due!

The young man was a dope earlier hanging out in the streets as a teenager. Now at 30 years old he recieves tenure at Harvard!!!
Not an easy feat!!! Some professors have not even started their careers at this age. Give the guy a break!

This is where us race realists differs from White nationalists. We applaud accomplishments and salute those (regardless of race)who have earned it.

At his age, he probably has alot more success coming to him. Good for Professor Fryer.

Posted by Racial Realist at 10:01 PM on May 9

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I heard Ann Coulter remark that Liberals/Democrats are for ‘equal results’ while Conservatives/Republicans are for ‘equal opportunity’.

Our government says they’re for ‘equal opportunity’ regardless of age, race, sex, etc. Just words. The actions of too many don’t back up what is said.

Things are evening out. Competitive attitudes, best man for the job, honest work rewarded——things of the past.

Posted by at 10:14 PM on May 9

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Any economic growth among blacks is artificial and temporary; their kids are invariably violent gangbangers who show no ability to follow in their parents’ footsteps.

Posted by at 10:57 PM on May 9

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““Life for the average African-American has also improved remarkably. The median black household income has risen from $22,300 (in 2006 dollars) in 1967 to $32,100 in 2006. Black life expectancy has soared from 34 in 1900 to 73 today. Most blacks today are middle class.”

And almost every one of the above improvements is due to white generosity in awarding AA jobs, school admissions, and grades, yet the black whining gets worse every year.

Reverend Jeremiah Wright, and the many black elitists like him are becoming more and more militant, with more and more hatefilled anti-white rhetoric coming from them, and their minions love it and shout their amens loudly and often.

The more these evil people get the more they complain and hate whitey for it.”

Quoting Mr. Robert Kelly above, this observation is correct. While Whites think that they’re assuaging the guilt that has been falsely drummed into them from nursery school, the reality is that they are appeasing a group who has been trained from birth to hate them. Appeasement doesn’t work. It never has and it never will. If you allow someone to bully you, they will continue to do so until you stand up to them physically and show them that you will fight back and not take bullying anymore.

This should be obvious to even the most obtuse, do-gooder, in-denial White. But I believe that, even knowing this, most Whites will allow themselves to be destroyed by their enemies since they’d rather watch a good football game than fight back. Most Whtes still believe in the “tooth fairy”. We deserve our inevitable fate.

Posted by Cinncinatus at 11:08 PM on May 9

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If they’re all middle class now, they can shut their big mouths about oppression, discrimination and lack of opportunity. End of story.

Posted by Leah at 11:44 PM on May 9

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“Looked at more closely, the statistics are murky…”

These edicts always become ‘murky’ when they no longer sound as tho coming from a ‘diversity’ office.

Posted by at 12:11 AM on May 10

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After comparing the percentage of whites and blacks who actually work, how about comparing the number of hours worked? They also overlook the fact whites have to pay substantially higher housing costs in their attempt to avoid being victims of the same blacks the article is so concerned about. I’m willing to bet this article simply overlooks whites.

Posted by Fox at 12:20 AM on May 10

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“For me, racism is not going to be an obstacle,” says DeWayne Powell, a student at Morehouse. He recalls an incident when, en route to drop off his college application, he stopped to ask for directions. A white receptionist asked sneeringly whether he could read.

Really? A white receptionist, in the twenty-first century, when the vast majority of whites know they are supposed to walk on eggshells around blacks in order to keep their jobs, is going to ask a black man if he can read? Come on, DeWayne.

“I thought: I’m on my way to fulfil my destiny, and you’re stuck behind that glass.”

Your destiny awaits, DeWayne. Excellent pay and benefits with no expectation of competence and little danger of being fired. It’s the Affirmative Action Promised Land. Keep chasing the dream.

Posted by LMWAO at 12:43 AM on May 10

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More and more blacks are mulattos

Posted by at 12:57 AM on May 10

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“The more we become educated, understand history, and how the world works the more we become intolerant of unjust systems.”

Exactly, which is why posters here oppose “affirmative action,” “diversity,” open borders, and the rest. They’re all “unjust systems.”

Posted by at 12:59 AM on May 10

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“Why was there no mention that Asians earn more than Whites? Would that interfere with the author’s moral preening or just not fit the view of America as racist? Seems like a relevant question.”

There’s no mention of it because Asians do not earn more than Whites.

Posted by Slater at 1:45 AM on May 10

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If you listen to the Obamas, this country is still oppressing the black man and there is miles to go before this country lives up to it’s promise of every man is created equal. Blah blah blah.

Posted by Gayle Sollenberger at 7:04 AM on May 10

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While it is great that Mr Fryer, a black man, overcame the odds, went to university, became a professor and made a success of himself he is not the only one to ever do that! Blacks, in my opinion, are their own worst enemy when it comes to succeeding in life. They like blame whitey for every stupid act they do. Its incredible they can live in the worlds richest country and still be at the bottom of the rung. The hispanic class will not look twice at the plight of the “downtrodden” black as they scramble up the heap towards the top.

And if any blacks read this forum I would like to suggest something that may help you immensely, please learn how to pronounce words in the English language properly. If you cannot say the word “ASK” then learn how and the same for other more difficult words. If you talk stupid then you will be treated as such.

Posted by Chuck_W at 7:11 AM on May 10

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It is stories like these by the mainstream press which continue the act of self-deception among the chattering classes. But they are only fooling themselves. Most whites know the real score and these “feel-good” stories cannot substitute for reality. These pieces are like those which appeared in official Soviet literature boasting about the progress being made in the old Soviet Union.

Posted by Xenophon at 8:42 AM on May 10

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Regardless of the reasons (affirmative action, government programs) the fact is the majority of blacks in the US are doing increasingly better. To listen to the incessant complaints of the race-baiters, one would think blacks are still slaves.

Posted by sbuffalonative at 9:35 AM on May 10

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Robert Kelly said: “And almost every one of the above improvements is due to white generosity in awarding AA jobs, school admissions, and grades, yet the black whining gets worse every year.”

Robert - Would you consider the possibility that it was the loud whining that enabled blacks to get those things? When they whined less, before 1960, they did not get much. The more they whine, the more they get. It is the squeaky wheel that gets the grease.

If they did stop whining, then the flow of goodies would reduce. Why would any group voluntarily give up on a strategy that has proven to be so successful in transfering resources?

Posted by Dakota at 12:00 PM on May 10

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12:57
“More and more blacks are mulattos”

My thoughts, exactly. I wonder how many of these “blacks” have White mothers? Unfortunately, probably many of them. That would seem to make it a transfer of wealth from the generations upon generations of Whites in that mother’s family tree and turn it over to blacks in one fell-swoop…fall all generations to come. Happy Mother’s Day.

Posted by at 12:52 PM on May 10

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Dakota:

Then why did whites succumb to this whining? Actually, it’s a chicken-or-egg question. Did black whining come first and lead to white pandering? Or was the white pandering first, and blacks then whined when they wanted more?

My experience is that the more you give them, the more they whine and hate you. So I tend toward the latter.

Posted by Question Diversity at 1:52 PM on May 10

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The article refers to IQ tests performed on…BABIES!!! HA HA HA! How on earth do you test the IQ of babies?? This is supposed to “debunk” intelligence differences between black and white. How idiotic!! Truly junk science!!

Posted by josh at 2:20 PM on May 10

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There are two Black americas. One that is upwardly mobile, hard working, have two parent families, well educated and propserous and another that is drug ridden, violence is commonplace, education is rejected and is falling further and further into poverty.

This is a fact.

Posted by Michael at 2:23 PM on May 10

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This is the honset truth. I was driving through some suburbs recently. Everyone was well dressed, there were two parent families, the streets were clean, restauarants and businesses were open, mothers were in the parks with their children, I saw golf courses being occupied, people were well dressed, people were being friendly to one another etc… It looked like perfect suburbia except for one thing. The vast majority of people I saw were Black! I am not making this up!

I wonder what gives? Perhaps the above article is true?

Posted by Dennis at 2:29 PM on May 10

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LMWAO;

The way in which you have described DeWayne’s future is the way it has been for millions of White males for decades.

Most Blacks (and women for that matter) should be so lucky.

Posted by Lester at 2:37 PM on May 10

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More and more blacks are middle-class.

It appears that the main reason for that is the governments of levels are hiring hundreds of thousands of them and pay them handsomely for their below average academic credentials, skills, and performance.

Do you remember in 1990-ties when Bill Clinton had to lay of hundreds of thousands federal government workers because of the budget crisis? I saw them walking away from their offices on TV. Virtually all of them black. And guess what, the government was still functioning about as well (or as bad) as before they were laid off.

I went to LAX recently. Virtually all the airport workers there were “minoirities” (parking attendants were virtually all blacks). I was struck by seeing how obviously unproductive they were. The guys inside the airport were walking around really slowly, talking to each other (on Mexican kept whistling as if he wanted to show to everyone that his work is anything BUT hard), and accomplishing very little. The exit line from parking was horrendous - almost o 1 hour wait just to pay for the parking - while only about 1 in 5 parking attendants were working in pay booths - the other 4 were hanging around (some of them directed traffic flow) and were of little help to ease the gridlock.

Well, all of them collect decent middle-class salaries for obviously substandard performance. And I was among those who paid for it - they charged me $30 for about 4 hrs parking (plus the 1 hr wait in line to pay that was added to the total time I was charged).

I am not saying that these are just some blacks of other “minorities” that tend to have substandard productivity. You can go to, say, Eastern Europe and see examples of whites who seem equally unproductive. It’s just that in the U.S. they are grossly overpaid as a result of absurd “affirmative action” and “diversity” policies. So, their membership in the middle class is, by and large, a result of social engineering.

So, next time when they tell you More and more blacks are middle-class, you better watch your wallet.

Posted by A Reader at 2:40 PM on May 10

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There is so much ridiculous nonsense here, I don’t even know where to begin.

Bribe black school kids with money or a phone? I guess white America is expected to pay for that, now, too. If they weren’t so shortsighted, they’d see they could get far more by working hard in school and getting a higher paying job when they get out, they way whites and asians do. And look at the graph- blacks are already being paid fairly for their education levels- in fact, black females with professional degrees are getting disproportionately more than white females. Not hard to figure out why- this is an example of the truth of Julian Bond’s (NAACP) comments about racism being present in the US; he just conveniently leaves out that its actually against whites.

And what’s this about the state being racist because more blacks are in jail? More blacks commit crimes. You don’t lock up a white 60 yr old woman for the murder a 20 yr old black male committed, you lock up the 20 yr old black male who committed the murder.

Another shining example of how distorted the logic of the leftist media and academia have become.

Posted by Student at 2:57 PM on May 10

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What a bunch of malarkey. My eyes just about crossed reading this stuff.

The thing is that all we’ve got is an illusion when it comes to black “success” in this country. Everything is based on their complexion. Remove all the safeguards quotas, AA, etc. that keep this illusion of success in the black community and the whole thing will fall apart. If companies weren’t under the gun to hire minorities, they shed’d them like the plague.

Just what is the area of discipline of Mr. Fryer anyway. The article seemed somewhat vague about that.

Don’t people get tired of writing all these idiotic articles about blacks doing so well when everyhting points towards blacks fai8ling overwhelminigly in everything they attempt?

Tom Iron…

Posted by Tom Iron at 4:01 PM on May 10

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Every glib assertion of The Econonomist’s racial puff piece leaves out something that could easily refute it. Most laughable is the suggestion that a new and ununusual IQ test given to infants, after the data has been manipulated and adjusted by “collaborators”, can instantly “debunk” decades of psychometric testing - with no peer review or opportunity for examination and refutation by professionals in the field.

Isn’t it strange that IQ tests - poo-pooed, ignored, and explained away for decades - suddenly become unquestionably valid when they show that blacks are as smart as whites?

DeWayne Powell, though the receptionist’s comments to you were hostile and impolite - did you ever consider she was expressing understandable outrage that the preferential treatment given to you is preventing her from achieving her destiny?

Posted by Doppelgangbanger at 4:24 PM on May 10

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A-Reader:

Perhaps what you consider middle class is different from alot of people. For the most part, airport attendants and the people who park cars there are not middle class. I would say they are working class at best. Maybe a few of them are lower middle class, but most are not.

Posted by John at 5:29 PM on May 10

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Where I work I think it is possible to estimate that approximately 70-90% of blacks employed should have been fired long ago. Does anybody else work in such a condition? It’s absolutely unbelievable how incompetant the blacks I work with are.

The way they are treated is similar to the manner in which irresponsible parents treat children. These people are ensured employment, basically free college “education” or better handed a degree, and treated as 10 year olds for the rest of their life.

Posted by NEONMANIAC at 5:45 PM on May 10

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Dennis at 2:29 PM: In the city I grew up in, there was a neighborhood for the Black elite. It was entirely isolated from any other residential zone by commercial or industrial property. I once worked there as a laborer for a paving contractor. I had had no idea that it existed, and the boss explained that these were Blacks with money who preferred to live among their own, but that they were ruthless about keeping the ghetto boys out. Therefore, they always hired White contractors, who would not come back later to rob them. True, the average IQ for Blacks is 85, but maybe 2% have IQs of 115 or better, and that’s the Blacks you were seeing.

Posted by Schoolteacher at 6:20 PM on May 10

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This is the honset truth. I was driving through some suburbs recently. Everyone was well dressed, there were two parent families, the streets were clean, restauarants and businesses were open, mothers were in the parks with their children, I saw golf courses being occupied, people were well dressed, people were being friendly to one another etc… It looked like perfect suburbia except for one thing. The vast majority of people I saw were Black! I am not making this up!

I wonder what gives? Perhaps the above article is true?

Oh, Dennis, Dennis, Dennis…………I noticed you left out the names of these cities and suburbs.

Posted by at 6:51 PM on May 10

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If I could give enough high-paying civil-servant jobs to the country, everybody would be “middle class”. Another bright idea might be that we could all get rich selling insurance to each other.

At a marketing job I tried out last year before quitting in absolute disgust, one of my black co-workers could barely speak. I quit because I had to work with incoherency on a daily basis, and I can’t stand that. My mother always made me wash my hands, and so I still hate being dirty, and having to listen to that man speak made me feel dirty.

Keep your “middle class”. They’re the folks who vote for critters like Bush, McCain, Hillary and Obama.

Posted by Michael C. Scott at 7:33 PM on May 10

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6:51:

They were in Prince Georges County, Maryland. The other was the Gold Coast in Washington D.C.

Posted by Dennis at 7:41 PM on May 10

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6:51pm:

I remember one of our regular posters Courtney making a similar comment as Dennis several months ago aobut her experience driving through some upscale Black suburbs. I forgot where she said they were located. But she apparently experienced a similar situaion.

Posted by Richard at 7:46 PM on May 10

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Blacks routinely blame their “problems” (facts of life of blackness) on whites; some whites agree; some whites disagree.

This disagreement is irreconcilable; it seems obvious that voluntary separation (letting the blacks and whites who blame whites go one way, and the whites tired of both groups go another) is the solution.

That the first two groups hit the roof when someone from the third even whispers this perfectly sensible solution, suggests to anyone with two brain cells to rub together that these whites and blacks are less than honest in their proclamations. (funny how these two groups tend NOT to live together, btw)

Posted by Svigor at 7:56 PM on May 10

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I wonder when blacks will have “overcome” to the point that the government will no longer need to steal from whites to give to blacks. 2100?

Posted by Svigor at 7:59 PM on May 10

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“There are two Black americas. One that is upwardly mobile, hard working, have two parent families, well educated and propserous and another that is drug ridden, violence is commonplace, education is rejected and is falling further and further into poverty. This is a fact.”
Posted by Michael at 2:23 PM on May 10

Yes, but you forgot to mention that your first group constitutes such a small percentage as to be insignificant.

Another point to make is that both groups whine beyond control, and the first one whines ever louder the more they get. How about Obama and his wife as an example?

Posted by w.r. at 8:06 PM on May 10

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“This is the honset truth. I was driving through some suburbs recently. Everyone was well dressed, there were two parent families, the streets were clean, restauarants and businesses were open, mothers were in the parks with their children, I saw golf courses being occupied, people were well dressed, people were being friendly to one another etc… It looked like perfect suburbia except for one thing. The vast majority of people I saw were Black! I am not making this up! I wonder what gives? Perhaps the above article is true?
Posted by Dennis at 2:29 PM on May 10

LOL! Hilarious. How could you tell “from driving through” that the families were two parent ones, and is the black race in the US so far gone that it’s necessary to speak of blacks being friendly with one another as if that’s a phenomenon?

An obvious attempt to fool someone or everybody, eh?

Sorry, but you’ll have to get a little more original or offer a more intelligent “let’s pretend” scenario to fool anybody here.

Posted by w.r. at 8:14 PM on May 10

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Posted by Dennis at 2:29 PM on May 10

Dennis, please provide us with the zip code. We can look up the demographic information.

Posted by sbuffalonative at 9:43 PM on May 10

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Despite the fact that blacks have gained civil rights, affirmative action, and moved into jobs that were impossible for them many years ago, there are still hardships that come with being black.

Even successful blacks like Oprah Winfrey, Roland Fryer, Barack Obama, and Condolezza Rice, still have to deal with the hardships that come with being black.

At the same time this still does not justify the rampant anti-white racism, among blacks, to blame all white people for all their troubles.

It is lot more difficult to be black than it is to be a Jew.

For example, I like going to Celtic festivals that celebrate Ireland and Scotland. I also like going to German festivals.
Even though I am Jewish, when I am at these completely non-Jewish events, I am able to blend into the crowd and enjoy being at these festivals. No problem whatsoever. I would not be able to do this if I were black.

At the same time, to everyone reading this post; any white person stupid enough to go to any of kind of “African-American” black event, will end up being beaten, robbed, raped, or even killed! I wonder if there are any such foolish white people?

As for Germany itself, I have made many trips there and believe me, today it is a wonderful country to visit that is nothing at all like the Germany of Adolph Hitler.

Anyway, getting back to racial issues, despite the rise in inter-racial marriages, and that anti-semitism is still alive and well in America today, more white people would rather have a son, or daughter, marry a Jew than marry a black person.

Here is a question for everyone reading this post; suppose it was possible for a black person to check into a hospital and have an operation that would turn that black person into white person, even with the superior intelligence and capabilites of white people. Would any black people still choose to remain black, if they could afford such an operation, or get goverment assistance to cover the cost?

Posted by at 10:36 PM on May 10

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[i]”If they did stop whining, then the flow of goodies would reduce. Why would any group voluntarily give up on a strategy that has proven to be so successful in transfering resources?”[/i]

Honor, integrity, and self-respect.

Posted by RED at 11:16 PM on May 10

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Lets face it: Fryer probably got his tenured job as a result of Affirmative Action. One can gauge his qualifications from the type of “research” he carries out: e.g. seeing the effect of bribe money on academic achievement.

I live in a college town, and I’ll tell you: blacks haven’t come anywhere. Of all the races, they are still the noisiest, the most obscene, etc. They do not hesitate to use obscenities even in their SCHOOL-WORK… to give a clear example, I took a communications class this past term, and almost all of the black students used profanity in the speeches they gave in front of the class, with the TEACHER LOOKING ON!

I do not think Blacks are intelligent, period… and they make up for this with their “I am a victim” mentality.

Posted by at 12:17 AM on May 11

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Does this now open up the need for minorities of middle class be given Affirmative Action privileges?

Posted by David at 12:55 AM on May 11

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WR:

These were adults who were walking together holding the hands of children and I saw a number couples pushing kids in strollers. Based on these facts, I would assume they were two parent families.

Posted by Dennis at 1:59 AM on May 11

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Schoolteacher, Dennis:

I live in Atlanta. There are indeed upscale Black suburbs here just as there are in the cities you live in.

Morevoer, a number of these neighborhoods are stable, have intact families and are largely free of drugs, crime, violence and other vices. I would say that these are upper middle class Blacks.

Posted by Mitch at 2:07 AM on May 11

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Dennis,

Nothing new about what you saw. Even during slavery and Jim Crow, there was a small uppercrust of blacks who were able to move above the general black community. During slavery, some blacks were able to buy their own freedom and bought slaves themselves. Later, during Jim Crow era, they owned business’ and even had some artistic abilities. This just proves the law of averages. To get an average, you have some over the mark and some under the mark, The average is arrived at somewhere in the middle and that average is very low by the standards of this society.

It’s interesting that people are still saying such sophomoric things as [I knew a black who was a genius] all these years after everyone isn’t buying that type of thing any longer. As if we’re supposed to say, oh well then, he knew a black man who was a genius. So I guess all our impressions of black people must be wrong. Give me a break.

Tom Iron…

Posted by Tom Iron at 4:51 AM on May 11

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It looked like perfect suburbia except for one thing. The vast majority of people I saw were Black

I have observed this phenomenon also. My observations/guesses are as follows,

Both spouses have well-paying government jobs

Unlike Whites they can afford to be vocal about keeping the gangsta element out without suffering social/legal repercussions

They are able to take advantage of all the goodies that the government dispenses to minorities

When the gangsta element creeps in they move to White neighborhoods and repeat the process

Posted by William Hope at 7:57 AM on May 11

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Slightly off topic; but concerning blacks and intelligence what is the general concensus about the capability of blacks to memorize? My limited experience has been that, if the motivation is present, their ability to memorize material is equal to Whites. Perhaps,the abscence of the printed word in Africa may have developed this ability due to the oral storytelling tradition.

I spent four years in the military and they did well on tests to advance in rank. These tests were multiple choice and were completely based on regurgitation of material.

In the civilian worplace I have observed blacks quoting lengthy regulations during meetings remembering paragraph numbers, etc.

To the unitiated this abilty mimics intelligence very well. You may have observed this when a seemingly intelligent black suddenly says something completely ridiculous.

Has anyone one else noticed this?

Posted by Paul at 8:25 AM on May 11

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“Nearer To Overcoming” (Whites). Gee, what a racist article by The Economist to ignore other racial groups than Blacks and Whites? Asians have highest median income in America at $57,518, and The Economist wants to focus on what it sees as the apparent the unfairness of Whites for holding down Blacks?

Posted by factualist at 8:25 AM on May 11

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A-Reader:

Perhaps what you consider middle class is different from alot of people. For the most part, airport attendants and the people who park cars there are not middle class. I would say they are working class at best. Maybe a few of them are lower middle class, but most are not.

Posted by John at 5:29 PM on May 10

I have to admit that I changed my definition of middle class, recently, mostly due to watching Lou Dobbs Tonight on a regular basis. Here is an excerpt from the Internet (you may Google-up many of those for yourself, if you are interested):

the Congressional Research Service issued a report last year [2007] pegging middle class income as between $19,000 a year and $91,000 a year.

In other words, the “official” definition of the middle class seems to be everyone above poverty line but not in the upper class (whatever it means). I would presume thet The Economist used similar definition in the above article.

Posted by A Reader at 11:06 AM on May 11

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“There are two Black americas. One that is upwardly mobile, hard working, have two parent families, well educated and propserous and another that is drug ridden, violence is commonplace, education is rejected and is falling further and further into poverty. This is a fact.”

There are actually three black Americas. A very tiny upwardly mobile, hard working (for blacks), have two parent families (mostly), well educated (for blacks) with some living on the largess of affirmative action. At the second tier you have the so-called middle class or what I prefer to call “High Ghetto” because they’re just lower class people given a boost by the government. Check the stats for the DC area. A third of people with incomes higher than $50,000 are black, but most work for the government in one capacity or another. The whole class structure of black America is being financed by White tax dollars.

Posted by at 12:42 PM on May 11

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“It looked like perfect suburbia except for one thing. The vast majority of people I saw were Black!”

I’ve lived in black ghetto’s, but I’ve driven thru these middle and upper-middle class black neighborhoods you talk about. The thing is, once you discover the area you are driving thru is black, your whole attitude and evaluation of the area changes. I wouldn’t exactly call these people oppressed, sometimes that works the opposite way around. I try not to be narrow minded, but those are the feelings I feel, and I think to myself my feelings are wrong. Then again, I’m sure there are AmRen statistics somewhere assuring me my lower feelings about the area are exactly right. I agree with other posters who have mentioned, the more educated American’s are, the more they accept anti-white ideas, or the more anti-white they are. Or should I say the more miseducated they are?

Posted by at 12:51 PM on May 11

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WR:

Economic statistics say that 22% of all Black families have combined incomes of over $100,000. That is almost 1 out of 4 families. The ratio may not be as large as White families, but this is hardly insignificant.

Posted by Paul at 2:28 PM on May 11

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NEON MANIAC:

I could say the same for a large number of Whites I work with and still do.

Posted by Brent at 2:36 PM on May 11

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Personally, I am absolutely thrilled to hear stories like Mr. Fryer’s!

The more Blacks that are well educated and are contributing in a positive way to our society, the better it is for all of USA and the less I have to worry socialist politicians attempting to distribute my tax dollars to support welfare mothers and deadbeat dads!

Keep up the good work!!!

Posted by Frank at 2:42 PM on May 11

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The fact of the entire humanhistory and contemporary life shows clearly and honestly: black never and nowhere can succeed without white help.
Being left alone, they are able to rise to the tribal existence. This is not a theory, you just look around the globe.

I state that it is impossible anywhere in the world to become an economics professor in 30 years-old (Einstein became a professor when he was 33. Only in America the ‘hero’ of the article is a Harvard professor — ONLY because he is black. It is his best ‘merit’ in a PC sick America.

Posted by alex at 3:33 PM on May 11

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As a federal employee and an honest man I must tell to all of you. I and 99 pecent of my colleagues and our duties are either harmful, in the best case,useless. The ‘job’ we do is highly overpaid.

Posted by alex at 4:21 PM on May 11

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A-Reader:

John has a point. The people that you refer to as middle class would more likely be considered working class. On the contrary Black doctors, attorney’s professors, business people etc… would be considered middle and upper class.

Posted by Tony at 4:44 PM on May 11

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Strange that Dennis cites Prince Georges Commune, People’s Republic of Maryland, as an example. That’s where Sam Francis lived, and in the last five or so years of his life, his neighborhood declined quickly. Not for reasons that AmReners can’t figure out.

Posted by Question Diversity at 4:48 PM on May 11

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Paul wrote:

You may have observed this when a seemingly intelligent black suddenly says something completely ridiculous. Has anyone one else noticed this?

Yes, I have. I think most white people assume that these kinds of ridiculous vacuous phrases are some sort of secret jargon among black speakers. I don’t give them that much credit. I just think they say something that they think sounds good and clever coming out of their mouths, but is gibberish in (our) reality.

For instance, a former black neighbor of mine once said of her dog, “she know how to make do.” Huh?

Posted by Question Diversity at 5:04 PM on May 11

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“As a federal employee and an honest man I must tell to all of you. I and 99 pecent of my colleagues and our duties are either harmful, in the best case,useless. The ‘job’ we do is highly overpaid.”

Former Federal Employee with DOD here who agrees with you 100%. I had a very well paying job but I didn’t feel good about myself working for them. The Federal Government doesn’t have very high standards and the bulk of the good jobs require a Bachelor’s Degree or higher. Not a specialized degree either, any degree, even Liberal Arts. I was working a job that probably any high school student could do. I finally decided to go into business for myself.

Posted by at 6:21 PM on May 11

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As I’ve said before, this country is on its way to a collective nervous breakdownn when, after the Beijing olympics,it gets a taste of what the economic future of the US holds. The Chinese economy will soon be the biggest in the world. One of the realities will be their obvious racism; I’m not so sure Barack is going to put a lot of guilt onto them. The Chinese are making no attempt to hide their sense of destiny, and unlike the African American “destiny” it will be won and earned in the arena of open competition in the world market, not begged-for from guilty North American Whites. Soon, it will be clear how declasse and worn-out color politics in the USA are; and when the open colonization of Africa by China proceeds on schedule, and when it is clear to see how little they care for what Africans think perhaps then we too will discard our pretensions and get back to letting the competitive process work.

Posted by mark at 8:08 PM on May 11

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Brent, you say that the case I described is similar to your working condition and environment with instead of incompetent blacks but whites? I hope not for your own sake but I can honestly sense an incredible intelligence deficit between most of the blacks I work with and the whites.

I hate to have to say that but I do because that is the reality in which we all live.

Posted by NEON MANIAC at 10:12 PM on May 11

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Mark:

It’s still a poor country. It will take 30-40 years to become a first world nation, although that doesn’t mean it won’t be a very important power beforehand. But my point is by no means is American power just going to disappear in a poof. There needs to be a lot less gloom and doom.

And about Chinese economic exploitation in Africa. It is and will continue to be further entrenched in the economy of Africa but people are mistaken to see it as colonial control. If the Chinese could exercise such a degree of control they would need lots of troops down there to secure there strategy but no Chinese forces are anywhere to be found. China still has a weak military that they have not seriously invested in so the looming military confrontation is more doom and gloom.

The US will have to share the world stage but that doesn’t mean it’s in decline.

Posted by Moderate Multiculturalist at 10:41 PM on May 11

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Alex:

Lawrence Summers former president of Harvard recieved tenure from the economics department at 28 years old.

Was he incompetent? Were Summer’s colleagues and professors at Harvard “sick” (to use your term)to grant him tenure? Was he a beeficary of AA?

Some of you posters need to get over yourselves. The fact is that some Black people have worked hard and earned their success. It seems that some of you rather than acknowledge this fact, would rather look for foolish excuses, make up skeptical stories about certain Black co-workers, etc… It is like you seem resentful of successful, hardworking Blacks and would rather see them fail to justify your perverse feelings.

Like race realist stated, some of you are unwilling to acknowledge some real truths and you damage your own credibility with such retrograde comments.

Personally, I am with Frank. I would take a succesful, tax paying Black person (or person of any race)over a crack addicted, welfare abusing one anyday.

Posted by Calvin at 11:06 PM on May 11

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It’s comments like 10:57pm May 9th and a few others than diminsh a lot of the credibility that this website has.

It is absolutely foolish to make the comment that all Black people who have children will eventually see them become “gangbangers” who will not follow in their parents footsteps. One could make similar comments for Whites saying

“all White parents who have children will see them grow up to eventually have no racial pride and will eagerly date and marry outside of their race.” This sounds just as pathetic.

Some of you need to reexamine your mindset before you post on this board. It is supposed to be a board of intelligent conversation, not a board of satirical comedy as some of your comments would seems to suggest.

Posted by Phil at 11:22 PM on May 11

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Why is it you can’t tell middle class blacks from others. They still have the same odd looking choice of apparel with big sloppy clothes and ugly athletic shoes in orange, yellow and pink. They can take a nice SUV and junk it up with small tires, spinning rims, dirty black tinted windows and spoiler. At one time some of them used to assimilate to White standards but not anymore.

Posted by at 4:57 AM on May 12

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Correction – The more we become educated, understand history, and how the world works the more we become intolerant of unjust systems.

Yes, just how ‘unjust’ can these systems be. Just how far do you expect America to go to pander to your continuous demands. The premise for ‘equality’ is that people are treated the SAME regardless of race. These preferences, perks and set aside programs that favor blacks over everyone else are immoral and unjust.

Posted by fed up at 8:02 AM on May 12

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“Here is a question for everyone reading this post; suppose it was possible for a black person to check into a hospital and have an operation that would turn that black person into white person, even with the superior intelligence and capabilites of white people. Would any black people still choose to remain black, if they could afford such an operation, or get goverment assistance to cover the cost?”

Even though blacks constantly make fun of White people on things like White people are cold and cannot dance etc…. I believe a lot of them be rather White. The great Indian writer V.S Naipaul wrote in his book ‘A Bend in the River’ about blacks in Congo hoping to be awoken as White people the next morning when they go to sleep at night. Of course their voodoo or praying would not work but White technology might. It does have a good track record of turning a black boy into a White woman freak child molester like Michael Jackson.

But the difference between blacks and Whites is not limited to looks and intelligence. I am sure it is much much more.

Posted by Jasper at 8:35 AM on May 12

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The Economist is open for comments now after most of the articles. Probably a good idea to educate them.

Posted by Amsterdamsky at 8:46 AM on May 12

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Previously dysfunctional cities, such as …Washington, DC, are now soberly governed and better places to live in.

Oh, wow. I can’t believe I just read that. DC is as big a mess as it’s ever been, if not more so. Get off the freeway in all but a very few very rich areas and then tell me how much you’d like to live there.

“Sober” seems to me an especially odd choice of word to describe DC’s governance, particularly whaen you take into account the antics of former mayor and now city council member Marion Barry.

Amid the revolutionary fervour of the 1960s, says Mr McWhorter, many blacks learned that “America’s racism rendered it unworthy of any self-regarding black person’s embrace and that therefore blacks were exempt from mainstream standards of conduct.”

Well, there you have it. The great mistake. Those standards are essential to a prosperous society. The upper and middle class blacks being frequently referenced throughout this thread, are likely those who have figured this out.

Posted by BW Sam at 2:22 PM on May 12

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4:57am:

Perhaps you cannot, but I certainly can distiguish between upscale Blacks and lower income and poorer Blacks. I have worked with a number of upscale Blacks throughout my career. Given my job and financial situtaion, I have had less contact with lower income Blacks, but I definitely can distinguish between the two groups.

The former tend to be much better dressed and have an air of classiness about them that lower income and poor Blacks (and many lower income and poor Whites for that matter)do not have.

As far as junky cars, have you seen some of the vans that some White soccer moms drive? I myself am a international consultant. I make an enormous salary. At times my car looks like a typhoon hit it!

Anyone who says that they cannot distinguish between upper class Blacks and poor Blacks or upscale Whites and poor Whites are either being intellectually dishonest or have been very sheltered in their social experiences.

Posted by Gordon at 3:59 PM on May 12

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4:47am:

It is common knowledge that many poor Blacks spend a dsproportionate amount of their income on cars and other flashy items.

The odds are that the Blacks you witnessed were not affluent Blacks, but rather lower income Blacks with extended families using their government checks to purchase such cars.

Posted by Christopher at 4:02 PM on May 12

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4:57am:

Although I would prefer to not associate with Blacks of any economic class, I can definitely recognize upper income Blacks from lower income ones.

Quite frankly, to be honest, I am sure that you can too.

Posted by Valarie at 4:05 PM on May 12

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Posted by Paul at 8:25 AM on May 11

I spent four years in the military and they did well on tests to advance in rank.

Uhm, Paul, ever heard of the ASVAB? I’m guessing you were in the military post-Vietnam, when the forces started screening recruits by IQ (via the ASVAB or whatever they’re calling it these days).

In other words, the averages (whites and black) of military personnel are in no way representative of the averages (white and black) of the general public; the whites in the military are near their racial average, but the blacks in the military are exceptional for their race (i.e., on par with average whites).

In the civilian workplace I have observed blacks quoting lengthy regulations during meetings remembering paragraph numbers, etc.

Paul! Again, you’re dealing with a select portion of the black bell curve. Do you think the blacks you deal with in the workplace are representative of blacks as a whole?

To the uninitiated this ability mimics intelligence very well. You may have observed this when a seemingly intelligent black suddenly says something completely ridiculous.

I even have to disagree with your point, and not just your supporting arguments; memorization takes brains. It isn’t mimicking intelligence, it is intelligence. Obviously, it’s not the most g-loaded activity in the world, and lots of work can make up for low IQ in this regard.

Posted by Svigor at 5:45 PM on May 12

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josh: The article refers to IQ tests performed on…BABIES!!! HA HA HA! How on earth do you test the IQ of babies?? This is supposed to “debunk” intelligence differences between black and white. How idiotic!! Truly junk science!!

My thoughts exactly. I was amazed that The Economist could be take a “study” like that seriously. I can just see the black and white babies being administered Raven’s Progressive Matrices. The black babies score 0, and the white babies score 0. Hey, they’re the same!

Common sense would tell you that the fraction of intelligence that is determined by environment rather than genes should increase with age. After all, older people have more time be be influenced by their environment. One of the most surprising results of IQ studies is that this common sense assumption is false, and that the opposite is true — g, the common factor in intelligence, becomes more influenced by genes the older people get. Young black and white children (but old enough to actually take an IQ test) score more closely in average IQ than they do when they are young adults. This is consistent with the fact that genetically determined IQ becomes more important with age.

Posted by WR the elder at 8:43 PM on May 12

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“Economic statistics say that 22% of all Black families have combined incomes of over $100,000. That is almost 1 out of 4 families. The ratio may not be as large as White families, but this is hardly insignificant.”
Posted by Paul at 2:28 PM on May 11

My reference to “insignificant,” had nothing to do with money, Paul, because I’m fully aware that these people are awarded high paying positions ahead of whites, though they’re not as qualified.

I was referring to the rest of it: Two parent families, responsible, etc., which IS insignificant.

Stats reveal that a high income in the black community does improve black families somewhat, but they’re still right up there when it comes to higher rates of crime, low test scores for the kids, etc, and their brats do still get into much trouble at school.

At least two studies by liberals in the last couple of years regarding test scores of rich blacks and poor whites showed the white kids as doing much better, with the authors wondering how that could be.

High income or not, I’m not living near them, and for very good reasons. You could give them all ten million dollars each, but I doubt you would see much change, generally, in the group as a whole. And I doubt there would be any money left to leave to the next generation who would be poor and low achieving.

Posted by w.r. at 10:29 PM on May 12

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Tom Iron:

What would make you say that Blacks “fail” in everything they attempt? There are in fact Blacks who are successful just as there are White failures.

I agree with race realist, Frank and some others on this board who say that some of you seem to almost have a pre-conditioned mindset that refuses to acknowledge non-Whites outside of Asians who suceed and would rather see Black failure and pathology.
Your comments do very little to help progress the race realist movement.

As far as I am concerend thank goodness Professor Fryer is contributing ot our society instead of dealing drugs. I wish him and others like him a great future.

Posted by Elizabeth at 2:21 AM on May 13

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Testing a baby’s intelligence is similar to normal playtime but with more objective record keeping to determine consistency. Now of course all or most of us have met the parent or grandparent with ongoing exclamations that their baby really is brilliant! Basically, they are head over heels in love and excited to recognize small gestures exhibiting intelligence.

I appreciate very much the quote from McWhorter that “Sometimes the assistant trailing you in a store is just trying to sell you something”. During the 90s, I worked as a sales associate. Generally speaking, young adults and teenagers across the board can be annoying. It’s the combination of neediness, mistrust, and self-absorption. The thing though with young blacks, was that they were often insulting. It was as if they were taught to assume that any sales associate is there to treat them as a suspect and that insult is the appropriate response. I am still angry about that.

Blacks, 30 and older and inter-racial couples especially, seemed to really appreciate the services I had to offer. In those instances, I sometimes had the impression that they were more accustomed to being spurned which to be honest, I felt was sad. The exceptions were among some black women who made a point of telling me of an engagement or marriage to white men. Like knowing that made any difference to me whatsoever. It was their being so snotty that got under my skin (same as with snotty whites) in addition to their kind of blatant assumption that I was racist. There was no question in my mind that I was being tested.

In another age group, 50 and older, not always but often enough, it seemed to get testy again. Towards the end, I simply starting avoiding certain demographics. Nobody likes to be treated rudely, especially if it was undeserved.

Posted by at 3:14 AM on May 13

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WR:

You are dead wrong on this one. Statistics show that upper income Black families commit far less crime than lower income Blacks and Whites for that matter. Moreover, theyir children have considerably less discipline problems as well.

In fact, when is the last time you have seen a Black doctor, businses executive or Black college president gun down someone. In fact, if you break it down by income young upper class Blacks are much less likely to commit crimes or do drugs than young upscale Whites.

On the contrary, we have seen several White factory workers, post office employees and other members of service occcupations resort to violence.

We Whites have our share of shiftelss, violent derelicts as well.

Posted by Neil at 11:47 AM on May 13

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Elizabeth at 2:21AM on 05/13

Hello,

First off, do you know what Prof. Fryer’s discipline is? just wondering. i agree with you that it’s better he’s not selling drugs.

Of course you’re correct about blacks not fail in everything they try. I shouldn’t have generalized that way. Who could be perfect? Even the dumbest people do something right every so often.However, the point is that the vast majority of blacks fail in life.

As far as my comment not mhelping the race realist movement, that may be, but they are my beliefs and I stand by my beliefs.

Take care and have a nice day.

Tom Iron…

Posted by Tom Iron at 4:15 PM on May 13

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Wr and some others:

I am white and I live in Atlanta. I can tell you that there are definitely some upscale Black suburbs there such as Buckhead and a few others where crime is low, there are a number of Black professionals, two parents families, clean neighborhoods etc…

I also remember the same when I lived in Los Angeles in the late 1980s about a suburb known as Baldwin Hills where a large number of upsclae Black professionals and some entertainers, including Magic Johnson lived.

Although I would never live in predominately Black neighborhood, I do know that they exist.

Posted by Charles at 5:46 PM on May 13

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WR:

You asked a poster how he/she could determine that these were two parent families they saw.

I live in a predominately White suburb and I see people playing with their children in parks and mothers in strollers speaking with one another all the time. I would say that it is safe to say that 90% of them are from two parent families.

I do not know why it would surprise you that there are Black people who are two parent families. I certainly know there are White single parent families.

Posted by Kent at 5:57 PM on May 13

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Gordon, if you consider someone who avoids all blacks as much as possible to be socially isolated then I’m guilty as charged. I’m only suggesting that some “upscale” blacks and lower income ones purchase their clothes from the same place or at least wear the same styles. This only the third time I’ve ever posted on this website and I only seldom read the stories on here but this one caught my eye. You see since last month I’ve got some of that “upscale” trash right here in my own neighborhood. I live in a pretty expensive area but apparently not expensive enough to price these people out. The whole family dresses like they’re in a gang. Big white t-shirts, gaudy gold chains, oversized pants, clownish hats, jumpsuits; the whole standard fare. Last week I was startled to see this black woman walking down my street. She had a body like a train wreck but that didn’t stop her from wearing something to show off her midriff. I assumed it was somebody’s housekeeper until later on I learned she lived there. These people don’t look any different from the blacks you see in South Dallas. This is not a one time event either. I see so called upscale blacks in Nieman Marcus all the time, although judging from the atrocious sense of style some of them have, I know they’re not shopping for clothes in there.

Posted by at 7:22 PM on May 13

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Svigor wrote, memorization takes brains.

Chimps beat college students at memory game

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/man-vs’-beast/chimpanzees-beat-college-students-at-computerized-brain-test-329518.php

Here we show for the first time that young chimpanzees have an extraordinary working memory capability for numerical recollection—better than that of human adults tested in the same apparatus,

http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2007/12/are-you-smarter.html

Posted by Paul at 8:36 PM on May 13

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I realized that after replying to Gordon’s post I forgot to say what I really came on here for. Just because some blacks reach middle class status or higher doesn’t necessarily change who they are. These “upper class” people can’t even maintain their own neighborhoods so what makes them think we would want them in ours? The same process will eventually start over again. It makes me angry that my own living space isn’t respected even though I respect theirs by staying away. I’ve decided to put my house up for sale and get the h*ll out of the suburbs. We’re buying a 75 acre ranch on the outskirts of Flagstaff AZ.

Posted by at 9:06 PM on May 13

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7:22pm:

Some upscale Whites and lower income Whites purchase their clothes from the same stores and wear baggy clothes as well.

I live in Malibu, there are notable number of White teenagers here who wear baggy clothes and chains around their necks.

What is your point?

Posted by Mary at 9:32 PM on May 13

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Tom Iron:

According to the article, he is a professor of economics and public policy.

Secondly, I don’t buy your assertion that the VAST MAJORITY of Blacks fail in life. This is like saying the VAST MAJORITY of Whites are succesful in life. Such a statement would be inaccurate.

What I meant is that when people like you, Alex and other poster make such blatant generalizations - all Blacks are violent, No Black people are intelligent, all Blacks fail in life etc… It diminshes the crediblity of your comments and it gives ammunition to our anti-race realist critics, asssuming you are a race realist.

Just a thought.

ELIZABETH

Posted by Elizabeth at 9:45 PM on May 13

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9:06pm:

It seems to me they are doing quite well. I was looking up the per capita income of some of these suburbs that
Charles, Dennis , Neil and others had mentioned and the average per capita income in all three suburbs is over $150,000!!!

That means that some of these families have incomes that are higher than $300,000 per year!!! It seems that a large portion of Whites could not afford to live in such neighborhoods.

This is indeed notable.

Posted by Floyd at 1:51 AM on May 14

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7:22pm:

I teach at a small liberal arts college in the midwest. Almost all White 96% The students vary in economic background. However, despite this fact, it is very difficult to distinguish the students on this factor alone.

In fact, I was speaking with a couple of colleagues about how it seemed much easier to determine a student’s financial background this in the when we were students decades ago. Wealthier students dressed the part and lower income students betrayed their more modest incomes. Today, it is hard to tell the difference between a student whose familiy may be worth $30,000,000 and one who is on 95% financial aid.

My point to you is that your clothing argument is weak.

Posted by Thomas at 2:00 AM on May 14

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“You are dead wrong on this one. Statistics show that upper income Black families commit far less crime than lower income Blacks and Whites for that matter. Moreover, theyir children have considerably less discipline problems as well.”

You’re referring to degree. I don’t think anybody on here wrote a word about high income blacks having the same crime rate as low income ones. What WAS written, however, was that even though high income blacks have less crime than poor ones, the crime rate within that group is still higher than whites in the same class.

“In fact, when is the last time you have seen a Black doctor, businses executive or Black college president gun down someone. In fact, if you break it down by income young upper class Blacks are much less likely to commit crimes or do drugs than young upscale Whites.”

That’s absolutely false, my man. And demanding to know when I’ve “seen” black so-called professionals gunning down people is absolutely absurd, as if actual witness is required before any validity can be given to something, and as if failing to gun down someone is proof of their lack of propensity for crime. Absolutely absurd.

Let me tell you something, Bud. These black “professionals” you’re referring to are affirmative action gimmes, and they’re not really professionals at all but crybaby ingrates who are awarded some kind of ceritification through AA or a dumbing down process or both, and many liberal studies—padded as they undoubtedly are—-reveal higher than normal white rates of crime in these so-called higher income blacks.

And you’re wrong AGAIN on the score of the black offspring of these blacks. They definitely DO have higher rates of crime than ANY whites in any income category, and they absolutely DO cause problems in schools and other places. Bragging that their rates of crime are less than poor blacks is like bragging about committing manslaughter instead of second degree murder.

“We Whites have our share of shiftelss, violent derelicts as well.”
Posted by Neil at 11:47 AM on May 13

Of course we do. Who said we didn’t? We also have many whites who are stupid too, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the overall lack of average intelligence of blacks as a group nor does it mean that blacks who are awarded high incomes are intelligent compared to whites. A 100 I.Q. in blacks is quite good for them. 115 I.Q. in whites could well go unnoticed and there are literally millions above that.

Having an emotional desire to want to think blacks do better than they do is only duping yourself. I have no objection to you belieing any myths you desire, but you’re not going to foist such nonsense on me.

Posted by w.r. at 5:09 PM on May 14

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“I realized that after replying to Gordon’s post I forgot to say what I really came on here for. Just because some blacks reach middle class status or higher doesn’t necessarily change who they are. These “upper class” people can’t even maintain their own neighborhoods so what makes them think we would want them in ours? The same process will eventually start over again. It makes me angry that my own living space isn’t respected even though I respect theirs by staying away. I’ve decided to put my house up for sale and get the h*ll out of the suburbs. We’re buying a 75 acre ranch on the outskirts of Flagstaff AZ.”
Posted by at 9:06 PM on May 13

Absolutely right on, my friend. I agree wholeheartedly. There are some who are criticizing people here for criticizing blacks unfairly, but they themselves fail to see that they seem to have some kind of illogical, emotional need to believe something good about blacks, and they’re making some silly assertions, which supports blacks unfairly, and illogically to boot. It appears to be either by design or emotional need. But whatever, there’s been some pretty silly reasons given in support of blacks.

Posted by at 5:36 PM on May 14

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“My reference to “insignificant,” had nothing to do with money, Paul, because I’m fully aware that these people are awarded high paying positions ahead of whites, though they’re not as qualified.

“I was referring to the rest of it: Two parent families, responsible, etc., which IS insignificant.

“Stats reveal that a high income in the black community does improve black families somewhat, but they’re still right up there when it comes to higher rates of crime, low test scores for the kids, etc, and their brats do still get into much trouble at school.

“At least two studies by liberals in the last couple of years regarding test scores of rich blacks and poor whites showed the white kids as doing much better, with the authors wondering how that could be.

“High income or not, I’m not living near them, and for very good reasons. You could give them all ten million dollars each, but I doubt you would see much change, generally, in the group as a whole. And I doubt there would be any money left to leave to the next generation who would be poor and low achieving.
Posted by w.r. at 10:29 PM on May 12

WR above sums this whole topic up pretty clearly, and, in my opinion, I doubt that many were trying to say black attempts at success aren’t welcome. But, at the same time, I think everybody is overlooking the fact that there would be only a wee fraction of blacks making decent incomes if it weren’t for whites and AA.

I think people here are irritated because they know this, yet they still hear blacks whine uncontrollably and spew anti-white hatred on a daily bases, crying about being oppressed, and whites know they have been forced to work very hard for what they have. They realize if they were black they would be awarded many things without earning them. That can’t be denied.

And I have to mention as well that it’s very rare that I listen to and watch a black talking head on television that has an advanced degree, or at least an undergraduate degree, talking as if he/she were on a par with a high school senior, sometimes even less, because what comes out of their mouths often is just pure stupidity as if they didn’t have a brain at all. It’s a hard pill to swallow for those whites who aren’t earning as much to know these people have higher incomes purely and simply because they’re black and are less intelligent than they are.

And, quite frankly, the situation is one of the great injustices of this country. And to be called a white oppressor and racist on top of it all and have your children harassed and beaten at school because they’re white? It’s an outrage.

Posted by ice at 5:59 PM on May 14

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“That means that some of these families have incomes that are higher than $300,000 per year!!! It seems that a large portion of Whites could not afford to live in such neighborhoods.

This is indeed notable.”

Yet many of them in neighborhoods where they’re unwelcome regardless of their income. Why?

Posted by at 7:07 PM on May 14

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The fact is that if you are a Black person in America and are of average intelligence, the odds are thqt you will probably fail unless you are extremely lucky.

If you are White and upscale (particularly White male and upscale) you can still be average or even slightly below average and still be considerably successful.

This is simply a fact.

Posted by Rebecca at 10:46 PM on May 14

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Rebecca:

Very interesting and thoughtful comments. You make a good point.

Look at our current president!

Posted by Phil at 1:00 AM on May 15

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“I do not know why it would surprise you that there are Black people who are two parent families. I certainly know there are White single parent families.”
Posted by Kent at 5:57 PM on May 13



Give me a quote where I said I was surprised by two parent black families.



Please re-read my post. My points were very clear, but you missed them entirely.



I pointed out the absurdity of making a demographic analysis on the basis of a drive by and further implied that the writer was being disingenuous, which he was, as you are now, by making up a scenario for the purposes of propaganda.



And saying that you know of “white single parent families” reveals a lack of logic, because it’s a point that wasn’t even raised or implied, and in no way does it give validity or a lack of it to anything I’ve maintained. In other words, my friend, it’s absolute nonsense.

Posted by w.r. at 9:16 AM on May 15

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“wr, you are dead wrong on this one. Statistics show that upper income Black families commit far less crime than lower income Blacks and Whites for that matter. Moreover, theyir children have considerably less discipline problems as well.”

Where did you see that I claimed the offspring of upper income blacks commit more crimes than low income blacks? I did not, nor did I make a comparison to low income whites and blacks, but now that you mention it, you’re incorrect on that also. Regardless of income blacks commit more crimes than whites generally, and certainly their children are more troublesome as well. Better recheck your facts. What you’re claiming really, is that all it takes is making blacks rich and they fit right in. Not so, my friend. Not so.

“In fact, when is the last time you have seen a Black doctor, businses executive or Black college president gun down someone.”

Absolutely ludicrous. First of all how often have you seen any blacks in thos profession? It’s very rare, and those that are included are AA gimmes. Also, do I have to witness black crime to know it exists? And who sees anybody gun down anybody? Childish logic.

“In fact, if you break it down by income young upper class Blacks are much less likely to commit crimes or do drugs than young upscale Whites.”

That’s false, and I think you’re letting your emotions get in the way of facts. Better recheck that. You’re way off base. Black teens of any income group are less intelligent and more prone to crime than ANY WHITES REGARDLESS OF INCOME STATUS.

“On the contrary, we have seen several White factory workers, post office employees and other members of service occcupations resort to violence.”

That crime occurs among whites has absolutely nothing to do with the high black crime rate among all blacks regardless of income, and you keep referring to what we have “seen,” as if witnessing something is necessary to prove its validity.

“We Whites have our share of shiftelss, violent derelicts as well.”
Posted by Neil at 11:47 AM on May 13

Who on this site ever said we do not, and what does that have to do with the high crime rate among blacks? Your logic is the same as that used when someone claims he knows an intelligent black to disprove someone’s stating the fact that blacks, as a group, are MUCH less intelligent than whites.

Posted by w.r. at 9:37 AM on May 15

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WR:

There is a group out there called Common Sense on Drug Laws and Sentencing.

I saw an ad in the Weekly Standard a few months ago where it stated that White teenagers were 5 more times likely to use drugs than Black teenagers.

The fact is that upscale Black teens are less likely to get in trouble with the law than their White upper classs counterparts.

For the record, there are many Whites, especially White women who are beneficiaries of affirmative action. In fact,statistics show that White women are the biggest beneficiaries of affirmative action. This does not mean that they are unqualifed any more than a rich white person who relative gets the job because of nepotism, family friends etc… this is affirmative action too.

Also, there a notable number of Black docotrs, physicians, college professors and attorneys etc… than you may realize. Perhaps in your sheltered, impervious, world of denial, you have trouble realizing or acknowledging this.

Posted by Neil at 3:49 PM on May 15

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Neal:

It’s the same old canard we hear from the black apologists and the white left wing all the time, that blacks are more likely to get harsher sentences for “drug crimes” than whites. What they conveniently don’t tell you is that dealing crack is a drug crime, and so is possessing a little bit of marijuana. It’s just that blacks tend to commit the more serious kinds of drug crimes.

And, if you adjust for the specific crime, whites are more likely to get stiff punishments than blacks. That’s because whites are more likely to have rural/Kraut “hanging juries” and “hanging judges,” who will send drug convicts to prison for drug offenses that would never get prison time for black defendants in the black/lib urban judicial systems.

Posted by Question Diversity at 4:46 PM on May 15

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“Also, there a notable number of Black docotrs, physicians, college professors and attorneys etc… than you may realize.”

There is NOT and the ones they do have are unqualified. I would go to statistics to prove my point, but quite frankly my friend the assertions you made are so ludicrous they fly in the face of everything that is known about black failure, and they do not amount to anything but your desire that what you assert becomes the truth merely because you say so. Article after article on this site points up to the fact that blacks DO NOT graduate in the sciences, and engineering, math, medicine, denistry, etc.,and there is always much hue and cry from the black community that they desperately need professionals of every stripe. I never knew even one single black in any of these fields of studies beyond a semester when I was working for my undergraduate degree 15 years ago. It’s no different today.

A group having an average I.Q. of around 80, maybe 85 if mulattos are counted, do not have enough people in the higher I.Q. ranges to qualify for anything above the teaching profession and journalism (And it’s just straight reporting, not anything requiring any depth of thinking.) A 100 I.Q. is not adequate for efficiently learning the required subject matter for the above mentioned subjects, nor is anybody in that group apt to understand many complicated concepts, formulas, causes and effects, etc.

My opinion nor desire has nothing to do with published crime statistics, as much as you would like to believe that and deny the truth.

According to you, blacks are doing just fine and need no help at all. PLEASE….don’t insult my intelligence.

Perhaps in your sheltered, impervious, world of denial, you have trouble realizing or acknowledging this.”
Posted by Neil at 3:49 PM on May 15

You just have to be black or a radical liberal. Those are the only two types that post on here who offer illogical assertions and offer information they want someone to believe simply because they assert it.

You’re the type of black or white liberal that wants to crowd blacks into all occupations, then when they get there you will harp on how qualified they are even if it is doctors killing people on a daily basis through incompetence.

Screaming on the deck of the Titanic that the ship isn’t sinking, might fool some gullible people, and give the person in denial some false security, but it won’t stop the vessel from going under water eventually.

Posted by w.r. at 6:05 PM on May 15

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“The fact is that if you are a Black person in America and are of average intelligence, the odds are thqt you will probably fail unless you are extremely lucky.If you are White and upscale (particularly White male and upscale) you can still be average or even slightly below average and still be considerably successful.This is simply a fact.”
Posted by Rebecca at 10:46 PM on May 14

Sorry, that’s not even close to a fact. It’s your unsupported opinion and it’s a dangerous myth. And THAT’S a fact.

The REAL fact is that a black in America of average intelligence will score about 80 on an I.Q. test, maybe 85 if he/she is a mulatto, and black males score even lower than that, so how could an average black succeed in any of the professions with that kind of intelligence? If they worked hard and were honest and dedicated they could become established in the labor market, but because of people like you who give them false hope they try beyond their limits and fail. Then of course, it’s blamed on white racism or oppression. That’s why there are those like Michelle Obama who have been awarded AA gimmes all the way through school, extending out into the private sector, making upwards of $300,000 per year, crowding out a white with far more qualifications and intelligence, yet all they do is whine and complain in spite of the fact they are earning about 10 times what their ability would allow on a level playing field without black privileges.

Now if you’re meaning of blacks with “average intelligence” refers to the white average of 100, then you’ve got to understand that level of intelligence does not enable them to understand subjects necessary for succeeding in the various professions. Rather than taking work they can do, they turn to crime or they fail in one enterprise after another and blame their incompetence on white racism and oppression.

Blacks just can’t cut it, and your saying so doesn’t change a thing. And putting them in jobs they’re not qualified for is going to make them miserable and everyone around them, to say nothing of the fact their incompetence could get somebody killed.

Posted by w.r. at 6:26 PM on May 15

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“In fact, if you break it down by income young upper class Blacks are much less likely to commit crimes or do drugs than young upscale Whites.”

After being on this site for a long time and reading the horrendous amounts of black teenage violent crimes that occur among blacks at all levels I can only believe that someone would make a statement like that only if he were living in a cave for the last 30 years, or if he’s trying to spin reality to his liking. It’s one or the other. Surely no one could be THAT brainwashed.

Posted by at 6:36 PM on May 15

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Blacks fail the world over, which makes me wonder how anybody can claim they succeed in the US, especially since they complain from the other side of their mouths that blacks can’t succeed because of whites.

Blacks fail, because blacks are the least intelligent human species on the planet, which is supported by a wealth of information, including that coming from Africa.

Case closed.

Posted by at 6:42 PM on May 15

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“For the record, there are many Whites, especially White women who are beneficiaries of affirmative action. In fact,statistics show that White women are the biggest beneficiaries of affirmative action. This does not mean that they are unqualifed any more than a rich white person who relative gets the job because of nepotism, family friends etc… this is affirmative action too.”
Posted by Neil at 3:49 PM on May 15

Permit me, please, to ask, what in god’s name is your point? I’ve read your posts above, and it’s impossible to know what you mean.

You reference statistics often, but never provide any. If I were to claim something that was against all known common knowledge, I’d have facts and figures to back me up.

Posted by at 9:07 PM on May 15

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“Yet many of them are in neighborhoods where they’re unwelcome regardless of their income. Why?”

Why do affluent blacks need Affirmative Action?

Why do affluent black children do just as poorly in school as their lower class counterparts?

Why does my supposedly educated black Professor write notes on my essay papers littered with misspelled words?

Posted by at 9:22 PM on May 16

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