Pope Urges Open Arms for Immigrants to US
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Pope Benedict XVI urged the nation’s Roman Catholic bishops and cardinals Wednesday to support new immigrants to the United States.
“I want to encourage you and your communities to continue to welcome the immigrants who join your ranks today, to share their joys and hopes, to support them in their sorrows and trials and to help them flourish in their new home,” the pope said during a prayer service at the Basilica of the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception.
Cardinal Daniel N. DiNardo of the Archdiocese of Galveston-Houston said he was pleased that the pope “commented almost immediately on the role of immigrants in our culture.”
“I welcome his statements,” said DiNardo, who attended the prayer service and a ceremony earlier in the day at the White House. “I think they represented from the Holy Father a sense … of the immigrant human person and the difficulties they have.”
{snip}
In his address to the president and the crowd, the pope said he was “happy to be here as a guest of all Americans.”
“I come as a friend, a preacher of the Gospel and one with great respect for your vast pluralistic society,” he said.
{snip}
(Posted on April 18, 2008)
Comments
And yet, has a wall around The Vatican, rides in a bullet-proof Popemobile. If Catholic theology is correct, and the Pope really is the Vicar of Christ, then he might benefit from some of his own inspired instruction.
Posted by Question Diversity at 5:44 PM on April 18
Hey, Pope:Will Germany open its arms to all comers?
Posted by Peejay in Frisco at 5:44 PM on April 18
Pope Benedict should open Vatican City to the 100’s of thousands of Africans, Muslims, and Hindus who are seeking a better home. I’ve seen pictures of the Vatican — lots of room in the spacious courtyards and halls. By placing a sleeping cot every 3 feet throughout the entire Vatican, they might be able to fit 100 or two hundred thousand immigrants there — to share their joys and hopes, to support them in their sorrows and trials and to help them flourish in their new home. Some say that the Pope is a hypocrite, and that he would never open his city to immigrants — that he would only ask others to do that. But I have faith that the Pope will do the right thing, and that soon, Vatican City will open its loving arms to hundreds of thousand if not millions of immigrants.
Posted by at 6:04 PM on April 18
Let the Catholic church sell their churches and pay for the illegals. Don’t expect the American masses to pay for foreign invaders that are not welcomed or wanted here. Also, I do not dislike the catholic leader but I also do not agree with the man on many issues. The world is overpopulated and this will bring on untold hardships as we consume the worlds resources. Mexico is overpopulated and under educated partly as a result of the catholic churches disasterous teachnings. Mexicans flood to this country because the resources do not exist in Mexico. Corruption is only a side issue. They come here and destroy our beloved way of life. And for this, I can only say the pope is very very shallow minded.
Posted by Elrey Jones at 6:12 PM on April 18
Why don’t we ask him to allow open immigration to Vatican City. Imagine the SE Asians, Eastern Europeans, Africans and South Americans that could have a better way of life there compared to their native lands.
Posted by Oberweis at 6:34 PM on April 18
“I want to encourage you and your communities to continue to welcome the immigrants who join your ranks today…I come…with great respect for your vast pluralistic society.”
This is absolutely disgusting, coming from such a figure.
“He also spoke at length about secularization in the United States.”
But not about the secularization of papal pronouncements.
“I come as..a preacher of the Gospel”
He comes as a social engineer, apparently.
Posted by H. Dumpty at 6:35 PM on April 18
I agree with Pope Benedict XVI,
yet… only on one condition. The USA does it the second, after Vatican opens ITS border to all immigrants, whether legal or illegal in the name of Christ.
Posted by alex at 6:37 PM on April 18
Oh well…..my arms will never be opened to those parasites…I don’t care who says what….the POPE is a good man…but….he just doesn’t understand what is REALLY GOING ON…perhaps a trip through LA or some border town in the southwest…then he would understand…but sorry this little Catholic is NOT welcoming any illegal with open arms….he calls them immigrants….not illegals…another point he doesn’t get yet…there is a big difference!!
Posted by lydia at 6:37 PM on April 18
Last time the rule of law broke down, wasn’t he manning an anti-aircraft gun as a Youth?
Posted by Kevin at 6:51 PM on April 18
This guy absolutely infuriates me. Who does he think he is, to come over here and tell us how to run our country? So he’s the Pope—he wasn’t elected by Americans.
He says he’s come “to preach the Gospel.” Where in the Gospels does Jesus say that peoples must admit foreign peoples into their midst?
I don’t know the Bible, so if I am mistaken, please correct me.
Posted by H. Dumpty at 7:00 PM on April 18
To be fair the Pope should open the Vatican to unlimited
muslim immigration.After all,What is good for the goose is
good for the gander.
Have a nice day.
Unreconstructed
Posted by at 7:07 PM on April 18
What he means is to swell the ranks of his dieing church. “I come as a friend, a preacher of the gospel and one with great respect for your vast pluralistic society.” He should try living among this, “vast pluralistic society,” and competing with them on the job market.
Posted by Louis from Montreal at 7:35 PM on April 18
It would seem to me that the pope is telling the catholic church to disregard U.S. immigration policies and break the law. I feel that he has taken the money road along with big corporations. I don’t feel comfortable with this man heading a church of one billion people.
Posted by at 7:49 PM on April 18
Let the Vatican State practice which, unfortunately is genocide/culturalcide , what they preach. The Vatican would be a ” Mecca ” within a week’s time , so much for extinct ” Christiandom ” .I am a Roman Catholic who can’t reconcile white-Christian exemption from holocaustal extinct.
Posted by Michigan patriot at 7:54 PM on April 18
“Pope Benedict XVI urged the nation’s Roman Catholic bishops and cardinals Wednesday to support new immigrants to the United States.”
Well, that sentence is all I have to read, to realize that this pope is no better than the last one, even though he has been critical of multiculturalism. It seems that if illegal invaders are mostly Mexican “Catholics,” then it is just dandy for them to destroy a country; unlike Muslims in Europe, which this pope frets about.
This is why I no longer go to church, I am sick and tired of the Bible being twisted to allow criminal activity to be excused. I am sick and tired of the genocide of the white race being championed as a new sacrament, as if it were Holy Communion or confession.
I don’t care for it when some idiotic parish priest does it, and that sentiment of disgust becomes almost infinite when it is applied to a pope.
As always, God help us all!
Posted by John PM at 8:26 PM on April 18
Italy is shipping them back to Africa but I guess that’s different.
Posted by Jim at 8:35 PM on April 18
The Catholic church is losing white people as members in droves and still does not or will not acknowledge that the reason for this is that they seem to no longer care for white people, but only for non-whites, even going so far as to encourage the ethnic destruction of white homelands without regard for the wishes of the whites in these homelands. I have been a catholic all my life but the transfer of 2000 black Somali’s to Maine at the behest of Catholic Charities was the final straw for me. The Catholic church has become another enemy of the white race. All that is left now for final alienation, and it will come soon, is for the church to elect a black or hispanic pope. At least, at that point, it will be recognizable as the anti-white orginization that it truly is.
Posted by at 8:37 PM on April 18
I was raised a Catholic and went to Church every Sunday and CCD every Wednesday until I was 17 then I rebelled. I always knew something was wrong though,growing up in southern California. If you want proof of how diversity does not work look at the Catholic Church in Orange County. The Whites complain that the Mexicans and Vietnamese are taking over “the Churches we bulit.” The Mexicans have Mass in Spanish and the Vietnamese have the Mass in Vietnamese at the same Church! If I was these elderly Catholics I would be mad that the Church embraced diversity and drove the young White Catholics away so there are not Whites around to defend the Church.
Even though I bashed my own religion, Catholicism is the only true Christian faith. Martin Luther was a heretic and Protestants need to return to the true Faith. The best WHite men ever were Catholic. I say this not too bash Whites that are Protestant, but to help you. My dad that was raised a Methodist, but converted when he married my mom. He told me once that he “didn’t know that he was being lied to growing up Protestant and thanked my mom for showing him the true Faith”.
Posted by Howard in Las Vegas at 8:59 PM on April 18
Oh well, just another argument for illegal immigration in the U.S.
The Pope would probably like to send some of the illegal immigrants in his country over here.
It’s been my experience that Catholics look to the Church or to the Pope more than to a relationship with God or reading the Bible. Maybe the Pope is blessed more than most. I don’t know. But I say his word on illelgal immigration doesn’t count over here.
Posted by at 9:17 PM on April 18
That’s too bad. I kinda liked the Pope for what I saw as his tough stance on Islam. But I can see why he’s all for the open borders crowd. A large percentage of Hispanics are Catholic and, well, that’s how they breed too. More Hispanics simply increases the Catholic Church’s influence.
Posted by Tim in Indiana at 9:33 PM on April 18
And will you support these new “immigrants” pope? No, of coarse not! You just make vague “suggestions” then fly back to your palace in your 747 and leave us to plan out and finance YOUR insightful “suggestions!” Through the years i’ve heard the various popes say “we need to end hunger, we need to stop using up our natural resources, we need to end wars,” with no plan on how to get it done AND paid for! And his followers look at him as if a genius has just spoken!
Posted by Tom S at 9:38 PM on April 18
The Book of Genesis — God precluded the completion of the Tower of Babel, confounded human languages, and scattered different peoples in different places for a reason. Much the same reason why the branches of government can/do/should check each other, to preclude the collection of power in one place and the arrogance and hubris thereof.
Posted by Question Diversity at 9:51 PM on April 18
A religion that can be shared with non-Europeans was never a good deal anyways how much ever Europe/America and this new religion have positive influenced each other. Europeans need a new religion uniquely ethnocentric like Shinto or Hinduism.
Posted by Jasper at 10:25 PM on April 18
The Pope doesn’t care about Illegal criminal Alien Mexican Invaders sneaking into America, he cares about $$$$$$$ and the more Catholic Mexis he can get into his churches the more the Vatican’s wealth grows.
The Catholic church is the largest single holder of real estate in the world and possesses more art and jewels than most kingdoms and unlike you and I, it is all TAX FREE! I would suggest that all churches that give sanctuary or take a political stand such as Pro-Criminal Illegal Alien Invaders should lose their tax exempt status and play on a level field. If threatened with loss of tax exemption, they will drop their Immigrant Crusade faster than closing a losing Bingo game!
Posted by To the right of Attila at 10:38 PM on April 18
i am catholic but i think that the pope should mind his own business when it comes to immigration in the US
Posted by at 10:45 PM on April 18
Perhaps the Pope should be as kind as to offer up the Vatican. Then he would truely know the joys of associating with some of these people. Mighty white of him to further give away America making her the trash dumpster of the world.
Posted by at 10:57 PM on April 18
On another religion topic: I just saw a mug shot on CNN tonight of a BLACK woman suspected of having phoned in the hoax pretending to be an abused girl in that polygamist compound in El Dorado TX.
This is an area where blacks are almost non-existent. Yet the perpetrator of this hoax, which resulted in the armed raid and dismemberment of that group, was BLACK. What’s the chance of that? Could it have been resentment of black racists to a group of whites having LOTS and LOTS of white children, and they wanted to shut that down?
Just a thought.
Posted by at 11:03 PM on April 18
Pope Benedict should open Vatican City to the 100’s of thousands of Africans, Muslims, and Hindus who are seeking a better home.
They aren’t yet inside the walls of Vatican City, but travelers to Rome report that “immigrants” are literally right outside the walls.
Hordes of Africans can be seen daily lounging against the Vatican walls, dancing, shouting, hawking cheap goods and relieving themselves.
It is only a matter of time and relentless political pressure from globalist jackals until they are within the walls.
European cultural icons are being Africanized. Next stops the Duomo; Notre Dame Cathedral; Westminster Abbey …
Posted by at 11:36 PM on April 18
Christianity came of age prior to DNA testing and IQ tests. Like any unfalsifiable ideology, it can’t deal with more current data which explodes its most fundamental assumptions about the world. (And remember, this isn’t the first time Catholicism has been down this road.) It will simply deny, deny, deny.
And to Howard in Las Vegas, who asserts that Catholicism is the “only true Christian faith”, I beg to differ. I myself am not Christian, but one thing I do know as a student of history: Catholicism evolved over several hundred years after the death of Jesus. It would be highly inaccurate to call it the “original Christianity”. Jesus and the early apostles would hardly recognize their movement in the pomp and pageantry of Rome. People like Martin Luther sought to return Christianity to that more primitive, pre-Catholic phase which the earliest believers no doubt experienced. The entire structure of the Catholic church would be utterly alien to the New Testament writers. To call Catholicism the only true Christian faith denies the most foundational teachings of the New Testament, which is the autonomy of the individual before God and the unconditional direct access he has to God through Jesus Christ — not through any temporal leader or power.
Posted by Greg at 11:59 PM on April 18
To be fair, the pope called for “immigrants” to be welcomed, not necessarily illegal aliens.
I’m reasonably sure the Catholic Church has never advocated, nor lobbied for, open borders.
Posted by Madison Grant at 12:02 AM on April 19
The Catholic hierarchy’s support for immigration
has nothing whatsoever to do with Christ’s teachings and everything to do with how many people are sitting in the pews when it comes time to collect the offering.
Posted by The Kentuckian at 12:19 AM on April 19
Given the extreme cultural bias shown against white males in the Americas today, it amazes me that 524,162,233 people in the Americas give allegiance to an organization run by a white man. A Mexican will jump for joy at the arrival of the Pope but then seeth with nothing but hatred when he sees me coming. What am I doing wrong?
Posted by Unemployed WASP at 12:58 AM on April 19
I am a Catholic and I say what the heck the Pope is talking about? In his defense he did say immigrants, not illegal immigrates. Nevertheless the Pope needs to do his homework. No Catholic has to obey these public relations speeches, but he should know what the jerk Bishops and Cardinals will do with what he says.
Now if I were Pope, and I am eligible for the office, I’d say just the opposite. “Immigrants must stay in their countries to fight oppression. I will soon visit your countries my children and talk with rulers to remind them that the gates of hell are open to them if they do not change their ways.”
I would have also reminded the clergy in America that hell awaits those who scandalize Holy Mother the Church.
The Church has got big problems. Benedict XVI talking about America’s immigrants is like Pious XI talking about Joe Stalin smoking too many cigarettes and giving off second hand smoke.
Posted by P Noctura at 1:27 AM on April 19
If Benedict stood up and denounced Muslim immigration
to Europe, millions would rally to his Standard. And then cer-
tain things might become possible. Instead he shilly shallies
and calls for more dialogue. Once upon a time, Stalin’s dis-
missive question, “How many divisions does the Pope have”, had
a real answer: many. And it could become true again. But in-
stead, he prefers to stick his nose in our business where he
is clueless but decisive-and wrong according to the teachings
of the Tradition a la Aquinas.
Posted by Freyr at 2:04 AM on April 19
Several things come to mind here. i have been to Rome and the vatican, a reader is right, there is a TALL block fence around the hole thing, electrified wiring on top and security cameras and Vatican Swiss guards watching and patrolling. People are hustled out at 5pm not to return until the next morning. All of the money paid out for the sex scandals would have fed the entire African continent for years, and the sex continues. The Vatican is also rife with Graffitti in the L.A. Chicano fashion so loved by immigrants. And finally, there is NO TRUE religion, only politics and like war, is a nations politics by other means. I agree that the Pope should open the Vatican to Muslim immigrants and see how long he lasts.
Posted by Skip at 2:32 AM on April 19
For those of you who are disillusioned catholics, I strongly suggest you check out the Orthodox Church in America (www.OCA.org) They are a recognized canonical autocephalous Orthodox Church that was originally the Russian Orthodox Church in America but was given independence from Moscow in the 1970’s.
They are more “catholic” than catholics (hardly a hint of protestantism) and they don’t really pander to non-whites.
Posted by dlc208 at 3:06 AM on April 19
Pope Benedict should open Vatican City to the 100’s of thousands of Africans, Muslims, and Hindus who are seeking a better home. I’ve seen pictures of the Vatican — lots of room in the spacious courtyards and halls. By placing a sleeping cot every 3 feet throughout the entire Vatican, they might be able to fit 100 or two hundred thousand immigrants there — to share their joys and hopes, to support them in their sorrows and trials and to help them flourish in their new home. Some say that the Pope is a hypocrite, and that he would never open his city to immigrants — that he would only ask others to do that. But I have faith that the Pope will do the right thing, and that soon, Vatican City will open its loving arms to hundreds of thousand if not millions of immigrants
Posted by at 6:04 PM on April 18
In addition to this suggestion by an anonymous poster I would like to add. Perhaps the Pope could enact some affirmative action programs for the immigrants that he might should open Vatican City too. It might be a tad bit xenophobic not to allow peoples of other faiths such as Muslims, Buddhists and Hindus to hold official posts at the Vatican as well and be preferenced in ahead of some of those already there. The new immigrants might also want to form some racist/watchdog pressure groups like Jesse Jacksons rainbow coalition or the ever honest anti-defamation league of bnai brith. Diversity could possibly be the Vaticans strength if only they decide to reach for the brass ring.
Posted by Chiefofclanfearghus at 3:38 AM on April 19
I am Catholic, and I have stopped going to church regularly. Every time I go back, all I hear is talk of “social justice” and I need to give, give, give - to finance my own dispossesion! Then the choir begins to sing strange songs in Swahili, Tagolog, and Spanish during the Eucharist. I look up on the alter where statues of St. Peter, St. Anthony, etc.. used to stand, replaced by a ghastly mural of Our Lady of Guadelupe! I feel like a stranger in a strange land!
The parish is also in desperate financial times because the parish is now over 50 percent minority, but the anglo parishiners contribute over 90 percent of church income!
The last straw for me though was during a $400 marriage encounter weekend, required by the church to get my wedding blessed. The priest could stop talking about how evil deporting immigrants was and how we should be welcoming. How we should spend the military budget to educate the world’s children, etc, etc.. The final straw was when he passed the hat to fund the spanish speaking engaged encounter weekend. My fiance had to dig her nails into my arm to keep me from going ballistic!
Posted by Simon at 4:12 AM on April 19
“And yet, has a wall around The Vatican, rides in a bullet-proof Popemobile. If Catholic theology is correct, and the Pope really is the Vicar of Christ, then he might benefit from some of his own inspired instruction.”
Indeed. His travels and appearances are as tightly scripted and protected as any politician’s. And have been for some time. Wasn’t he the doctrinal watchdog for the Church for years? Maybe he’s conservative only when it comes to church doctrine.
If he’s going ask for benevolence toward the strangers among us that’s fine. But he also could have tossed out a few words about those who migrate should obey the laws as we all are instructed to do in the Gospels (1 Peter 2:13-17).
Posted by at 7:03 AM on April 19
Hey, Pope:Will Germany open its arms to all comers?
Posted by Peejay in Frisco at 5:44 PM on April 18
They already have. The Turks!
Posted by Taurus689 at 8:25 AM on April 19
The pope is just another member of the elite, another talking head who wants a sea of mocha-colored wage slaves who are just pawns of the State.
Am I shocked about this? No.
The sooner we understand that the entire world is basically run by an elite few (I call them the liberal/neocon alliance) who are actively working AGAINST our best interests, the better.
Posted by Old Victorian at 8:31 AM on April 19
Hmm… I wonder how the Pope will address Mexico and its stand on immigration.
Posted by at 9:18 AM on April 19
I think it just might be that the pope has been misinformed about the immigration situation here. Perhaps he’s been fed a ton of baloney about ‘struggling, wretched chritians risking their lives to have a decent life.’ I think we all should write to him and tell him how it really plays out. Respectfully, so that the letters are read. And remind him that most if not all of these immigrants have their own countries so destroying the US is not even a ‘necessary evil.’
Posted by at 9:54 AM on April 19
I have tried for decades to improve relations between Catholic and Protestant (there is no reason to repeat the history of difficulty).
I refuse to blame any American for anything said by the Pope or his clergy. We are all soldiers of Christ Jesus and that is much more important than our political differences of opinion. I will not ask any Roman Catholic to repudiate the words of the Pope because I know (as you should) that when the battle lines are drawn in this country, there will be Catholics on my left and on my right.
Remember brothers, there has never been a Catholic army in the United States, except during the Mexican War of the 1840s. Catholic and Protestant have never been at war in this country. We have always been Americans first. God help us if we cannot keep it that way.
Posted by Memphomaniac at 10:24 AM on April 19
I know this has to be a difficult topic for AR to cover, because it would be really easy to fall into the trap of anti-Catholic bigotry. If one doesn’t denounce Protestant open borders treachery in the same place where one denounces the Pope, and do it just as vociferiously, there will be a lot of Catholics (even right-wing racialist Catholics) who will think you’re just picking on Catholicism. If there would have been news on Friday about a Lutheran leader in Minneapolis calling for open borders, I’m sure AR would have posted it, directly next to to this thread. Or maybe in with this thread.
So this Protestant is going to help balance things out by saying (truthfully) that most Protestant leaders feel the same way that Benedict XVI does. And often time is hypocritical in the same way. Need I remind you about the UCC?
Of course, many non-Christians are racial universalists, hypocritically so.
Logical question — if God really wants racial universalism, why did the Christian Church(es) take nineteen-and-a-half centuries to figure it out? The Catholic schools in St. Louis were segregated until 1947. Many similar examples I’m sure can be found among Protestants.
Benedict XVI said this morning that he’s for the doctrine of universal human rights. I think he’s playing with fire, because the human rights gestapo would put the Catholic priesthood up on the chopping block for their “homophobia.”
Posted by Question Diversity at 10:37 AM on April 19
The nasty secret about Christianity is that is was created with multiculturalism in mind. Embrace this mind virus at your own peril. At least have the common decency to worship a god that shares your own identity instead of embracing that of another ethnic group. The idea is to worship a god who thinks YOU are the chose people.
Posted by Xenophon at 10:58 AM on April 19
Skip wrote:
Vatican Swiss guards watching and patrolling
There’s another thing. Swiss guards are entirely Swiss. Because they come from the ranks of young men in the Swiss military, there are exceedingly few (if any) non-whites. So Benedict XVI ought to “welcome” more kinds of people into his country’s military and his own security detail. After all, we know the Tuskegee Airmen won WWII…
Posted by Question Diversity at 11:14 AM on April 19
Taurus689 wrote:
They already have. The Turks!
Most Turks in Germany are there because the American military put them there after WWII, because for some odd reason, Germany suffered a population loss. And they haven’t been deported because Washington has not yet given the German government permission to do so.
Posted by Question Diversity at 11:24 AM on April 19
Xenophon wrote:
The nasty secret about Christianity is that is was created with multiculturalism in mind.
That may have been true among the earliest Christians, but Christianity only spread in Europe because it was tweaked to appeal to the tribalist Teutonic/Germanic sensibilities.
BTW, this might be something more appropriate for a Ph.D. dissertation, but I’m wondering why the Protestant Reformation caught fire in the northern Germanies and in Scandinavia. The rest of Europe that wasn’t already Byzantine (Orthodox) stayed Catholic, and while England switched, it was only because of Regnal order, based on his personal life.
Posted by Question Diversity at 11:39 AM on April 19
The Pope has joined many mainstream Protestant religions in poking their noses into the immigration problem. Since immigration control is a proper function of the government and not the church, it’s time the IRS pulled the tax exempt status of all religious institutions that try to interfere in the government’s immigration policy.
Posted by White and proud at 12:26 PM on April 19
Of course we had to be reminded that Tancredo’s presidential campaign is “defunct” as to insinuate that his anti-illegal stance is unpopular with the electorate. I wonder if half hispanic Bill Richardson’s campaign would be similarly described when he says amen to the Pope’s sentiments of legalizing the illegals? No doubt he’ll be described as a “former Democratic presidential hopeful”.
If anyone needed evidence that Catholicism, and for that matter Christianity, has abandoned white people this is definitely it. Therefore, we should abandon Christianity. The pope is also an utter hypocrite in that he has spoken out against Muslim immigration into Europe but expects America to accept tens of millions of illiterate and crime prone Mestizos.
Most churches preach the cultural Marxist bible and make no racial distinctions, so I fail to see how someone can contend that I’m wrong in my claim. Our religion should be anything that furthers our interests and improves our chances of surviving. We won’t find the answers in the bible or sitting in a church.
Posted by Super Dave at 12:46 PM on April 19
When you care only about ‘suffering’ or ‘compassion’, you’ve lost your way. That’s liberalism!
You don’t want to say ‘no’ to anyone’s face. You don’t directly want to see pain because it disturbs your comfortable state of mind.
But the adults in the room ask, “where have we been? where are we going? what ‘stays’? Are there worse things than someone down the road not getting what they?”
500 years from now, what trends in our time will seem important?
One thing that’s certain is that people will always suffer; another is that you can’t please everyone.
“What would it benefit a man if he gained the whole world and lost his soul”, Jesus said. One definition of ‘soul’ is the ‘vital or essential part or quality of a person or people’
The Pope, responsible for eternal verities, should weigh this when considering illegal immigration.
Posted by Patrick 2 at 12:56 PM on April 19
The Pope has also stated:
“Single believers are called to open their arms and their hearts to every person, from whatever nation they come, allowing the authority responsible for public life to enforce the relevant laws held to be appropriate for a healthy co-existence.”
So, it’s clear that he supports immigration, but also immigration that enforces the law and maintains a healthy co-existence. This could be read to mean that only legal European immigrants are allowed, and I don’t think many here would have a problem with that.
Just because the tagline says “Pope Benedict joins the open borders crowd” doesn’t mean that’s the only interpretation of the article that is correct. And certainly, one news article does not express the entirety of the Pope’s views on immigration.
Posted by John Kennedy at 1:12 PM on April 19
As an unbaptised pagan, I am not eligible to be Pope, but were I, I would consider the advice to “render under Caesar those things that are Caesar’s” very closely.
John Paul II had an excuse to meddle in state politics, as he was Polish, and the Soviets were clearly oppressing Poland. Ratzinger has no such excuse, as the US is not preventing Mexican criminal invaders from leaving.
Posted by Michael C. Scott at 1:28 PM on April 19
I think the Pope is simply promoting the catholic dictum of kindness and mercy for all - perhaps also conscious of the fact that if his appeal has effect the strength and wealth of the church over which he presides will increase.
All that said, citizens of this country have the more practical duty (currently consciously betrayed by its national leaders) to safeguard the homeland, its laws, and its quality of life.
Posted by Gary at 2:32 PM on April 19
Come on people, it is not only the pope that supports multicult, diversity and immigrants. Some Secular groups, gay rights movement, feminists, Jewish and protestant groups do!!!
Posted by at 3:16 PM on April 19
I live in Tulsa and Oklahoma has the strongest law in the nation to restrict illegal aliens. The Catholic hierarchy has mounted a strident campaign to repeal our wonderful law. The church is a dying institution with a dwindling white membership which has staked its future on hispanics.
Posted by Charles at 3:37 PM on April 19
“BTW, this might be something more appropriate for a Ph.D. dissertation, but I’m wondering why the Protestant Reformation caught fire in the northern Germanies and in Scandinavia.”
Those countries had proportionately the most literate people, i.e., yeomen and middle-class merchants. These were the people who read the Bible once it became widely available through printing presses, and they were the ones who saw it as taking precedence over the church hierarchy.
There was correspondingly less literacy, and hence less Protestantism, in countries where both the poor and the rich were proportionately more numerous. The poor couldn’t afford to learn to read and the rich couldn’t be bothered.
Posted by Canadian at 5:19 PM on April 19
One more reason why “modern” christianity is a loosing proposition for whites.
Perhaps we should revert to our pre-christian paganism—it certainly made much more sense.
Posted by at 5:37 PM on April 19
Question Diversity, Christianity is a white man’s religion.
Christ charged his disciples to, Go and teach all nations. Notice the “Go”, not bring all nations to your country.
Luther never really wanted to break with Rome. He was one of a long line of Church reformers, and expected Rome to see the errors and correct them. And he had convincing arguments demonstrating that he actually was not breaking away from the true Church, rather Rome was breaking away while he stayed loyal to a Church that went back to the apostles.
The Germans found the teachings of the Protestants inviting because some of un-unified German territory’s rulers found them inviting. France and England’s powerful rulers kept the Protestants from gaining a foot hold. Henry VIII was honored with the Defender of the Faith title by the Pope.
Christianity never made many inroads with non-whites, with the exception of South Americans natives, who accepted the faith of their rulers. The South Americans have no intellectual tradition, and their contribution to theology has been the silly Liberation Theology. Asia and Africa have been very hostile to Christ.
Looking at the success of the Church without granting that the Holy Spirit is the cause, the historian sees a Christianity that thrives among those who support both a strong monogamy and patriarchy. That is why the Church is asking for disaster by allowing feminist and gays to infiltrate it.
Posted by P Noctura at 5:48 PM on April 19
I was a Roman Catholic, attended Catholic Schools in the pre
Vatican 2 church. As far as I am concerned, the true Catholic
church ceased when the decrees of the Vatican 2 council were
promulgated. This is when the church changed from a spiritual
institution to a political, and a social institution promoting
communist, and socialist causes. All popes since Pius XII are
anti-popes, including benedict xvi.
Posted by at 5:54 PM on April 19
Canadian:
Yes, but the southern Germanies also had the same literacy, the same bourgeoisie economy, and the same penetration of printing presses. And they remained Catholic. Also don’t forget that Germany wasn’t “a country” at the time, instead a coalition of city-states, landed gentries, religious (i.e. Catholic, pre-Reformation) authorities, of relatively similar peoples and dialects.
P Noctura:
I knew the part about Martin Luther only wanting internal reform, and that nailing statements on church doors was a standard form of communication among Catholic theological intellectuals of the time. The Protestant Reformation was a “grass roots” event. And that is why I asked that question. What was it about the “grass roots” of the northern part of the Germanic city-states and Scandinavia that made them susceptible to want to “rebel” against the then-almighty Roman Church, and start a whole new branch of Christianity. You and Canadian are starting to come up with a good answer.
Posted by Question Diversity at 6:04 PM on April 19
“I want to encourage you and your communities to continue to welcome the immigrants who join your ranks today, to share their joys and hopes, to support them in their sorrows and trials and to help them flourish in their new home,” the pope said during a prayer service at the Basilica of the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception
This misguided man has no understanding of reality; these invaders are illegal squatters who are destroying this countries language, culture and using up our resources. Where did you get the distorted notion that we share their joys and hopes? They have a nation where they failed to build and fulfill their hopes and dreams, whatever they may be (Something that you do not even know) we are loosing our jobs and our homes and you have the audacity to state we must help these creatures flourish in their” new home. “
Cardinal Daniel N. DiNardo of the Archdiocese of Galveston-Houston said he was pleased that the pope “commented almost immediately on the role of immigrants in our culture.
This is the mindset of an idiot who cannot distinguish an invader and a legal immigrant who is assisting in breaking the laws of this nation.
“I come as a friend, a preacher of the Gospel and one with great respect for your vast pluralistic society,” he said.
You have come to preach a different Gospel, the Gospel of the new world order, the new Tower of Babel is what you embody, and you are certainly no friend!
Posted by saggezza at 7:09 PM on April 19
I am Catholic but I refuse to accept anything coming from the Vatican after 1958 (the election of John XXIII, who called the Second Vatican Council).
I find I am able to retain my sanity that way.
Posted by Brendan at 8:15 PM on April 19
The Catholic Church is the LEADING advocate for illegals into America. They defend and promote SANCTUARY cities and are nothing but a socialist/marxist organization. Next to them is the Lutheran Church who brings in millions of “refugees” (who are ALL of color, BTW!) ALONG with the Catholic Church! As one poster stated, Christianity is a WHITE man’s religion, period! It is only when the ENEMIES of Christ infiltrated the Churches, that all of a sudden it became EVERY man’s religion! Why do you suppose this happened? READ your BIBLE for once and quit listening to your priests and pastors who are deceiving you! Beware of the false prophets……Remember?
Posted by at 9:26 PM on April 19
Let him welcome more immigrants to Italy and Germany! Once the Muslims become a majority there, there either won’t be a Vatican or he’ll just be a leader of Europe’s remaining Dhiminis.
Posted by DP at 10:14 PM on April 19
I have simply stopped listening to this creed. Christianity is very old and is the product of a time so grotesquely ignorant in comparison to our age we may as well be talking about another planet. I am reading a book called “Gnosis” by Erik Rudolph, a scholarly work on the early heretics and their interactions with Christianity. One can see the extreme intellectual primitivism of those ages in this work. Much of the “theology” we analyze today had its origins in modes of thought such as Egyptian and Greek cosmologies which were based on totally erroneous ideas such as astrology and Ptolemaic conceptions of the solar system. Time for us as a species to grow up and base our political science on more solid ground. This doesn’t mean I am going to reject anything a Christian says but I won’t regard it as better in quality than what an non-believer says for that reason. If anything, “God” or “providence”, if you will, must smile on the more modern societies for the advances made in science ( such as medical science) which has meant increased life spans for millions. The social disruptions wrought by Mexican and other third world invasions only delays the dawn of the new age for many more millions of potential beneficiaries by diverting huge amounts of resources to coping with them here. As a result the NAFTA agreement will be terminated. Think of the costs to the world if Southern California becomes Calcutta.
Posted by mark at 11:49 PM on April 19
Well, he did say “immigrants” as opposed to “illegal immigrants”. I am not opposed to immigration, as long as all the proper avenues are followed. We are all immigrants. The crackdown needs to be on those that come to the US illegally. Harsher penalties would be a nice start.
Posted by Chris at 12:38 AM on April 20
I don’t think the pope really understands what he’s saying. He’s thinking in antiquated terms with a Christian ‘love for all’. This is the weakness of our people. Many people will embrace what the pope is saying and this will lead to eventual chaos in this country, and in Europe. The pope after all, is an elite; he doesn’t have to live among the hordes of non-whites - including Muslims. When Europe is overrun and the walls of the Vatican are being invaded will he wake-up then? I don’t know. I do know hard times lie ahead in the not-too distant future.
Posted by Awakened at 1:51 AM on April 20
“The pope on Wednesday called for welcoming immigrants to the United States
This reminds me of the gaffe that DeGaulle made in Quebec, urging Quebec’s independence, which resulted in a diplomatic scandal and made him persona non grata in Canada. The same should apply to the pope if he came here to undermine our country.
…and even issued a statement in Spanish telling the Latino community he would urge President Bush to grant legal status to illegal immigrants living in the states.”
Bush does not need any urging. He’s much too eager as it is.
Posted by ghw at 4:48 AM on April 20
Sounds like we need another Reformation. Those remember that it is not just the Catholics that belong to the World Council of Churches that preaches similar rubbish.
Posted by at 7:52 AM on April 20
Christianity has mutated into Marxism.
Perhaps it was a forced mutation; perhaps not, but the germ of Marxism has always been in Christianity.
Many writers have said, since Marxism appeared, that it was nothing more than “practical” Christianity.
Both Christianity and Communism ruled Europe and Russia for a period, then reality crushed them both—the one crushed by the very history it always appealled to, which was found to be false; the other crushed by the very economics it professed to have solved, but was in fact mangled by.
Both have hangers-on who appeal to the “true” version of both.
Posted by Garvin Alfred Schmaltz at 10:35 AM on April 20
I knew the part about Martin Luther only wanting internal reform, and that nailing statements on church doors was a standard form of communication among Catholic theological intellectuals of the time. The Protestant Reformation was a “grass roots” event. And that is why I asked that question. What was it about the “grass roots” of the northern part of the Germanic city-states and Scandinavia that made them susceptible to want to “rebel” against the then-almighty Roman Church, and start a whole new branch of Christianity. You and Canadian are starting to come up with a good answer.
Posted by Question Diversity at 6:04 PM on April 19
> I would like to chime in with a point of vier on this; We may notice that the Protestant movement correlated with increased distance from Rome and monarchs (notably Henry Vlll) not wanting to be ruled by what was then a very earthly empire in Rome. The less time ancient Rome had occupied an area, the easier it was for it to drift from the Church.
Posted by Whiteplight at 1:53 PM on April 20
“The Catholic Church is the LEADING advocate for illegals into America. They defend and promote SANCTUARY cities and are nothing but a socialist/marxist organization. Next to them is the Lutheran Church who brings in millions of “refugees” (who are ALL of color, BTW!) ALONG with the Catholic Church! As one poster stated, Christianity is a WHITE man’s religion, period! It is only when the ENEMIES of Christ infiltrated the Churches, that all of a sudden it became EVERY man’s religion! Why do you suppose this happened? READ your BIBLE for once and quit listening to your priests and pastors who are deceiving you! Beware of the false prophets……Remember?”
Posted by at 9:26 PM on April 19
> You ought to read history. Also, nowhere in the Bible does it say that Christianity is for whites only. In fact, quite the opposite. And whites converted Africans in the antebellum south!
Also, also, the first Christians were Jews and the first converts were Hellenic Jews in Greece. People who claim a racial exclusivity for Christians usually claim the Jews are not white people. People like you are trapped by your psuedo-Christian culture. To remain consistent, you and those like you are going to have to drop all pretentions of being Christians. The main stream of Christianity is the complete opposite of what a white seperatist movement needs anyway.
It is much better to learn about actual historical pre-Christian outlooks in Europe - what your real ancestors believed before they were tricked and tormented into converting to a Middle-Eastern religion. Really, today’s Islamic push is just replicating what Christianity did during the Dark Ages and beyond in Europe without the bother of preaching to the unconverted first.
Posted by Whiteplight at 2:04 PM on April 20
White Plight:
Explain Ireland and Poland. Never touched by the Roman Empire, but both became Catholic and stayed Catholic, and they were further from Rome than the Germanies and Scandinavia.
Posted by Question Diversity at 5:13 PM on April 20
Not at all Whiteplight. As you know the Catholic (the words means ‘universal’ and not in the orthodox initially) didn’t really get underway until the 3rd century A.D. under Constantine. With the fall of the ancient Roman Empire came the Dark and then the Middle Ages.
During this time, Europe was invaded by Muslims which under the Christianized Frank, Charles Martel, were finally repelled at the Battle of Tours saving Western Civilization from Islamization. Charles built on his success and by the time of Charmelagne saw the beginning of the Holy Roman Empire under the restored Holy Roman Church, the latter which continues to this day, and the feudal system. It was this Holy Roman Empire, in league with the New Holy Roman Church that eventually Christianized the pagans and saw Western Civilization through to the modern age while protecting it from both invading Muslims and barbarians right up until the Napoleonic Wars. But by that time modern science and new political models were blooming.
So historically, Christianity has been a great boon to white people uniting and protecting both them and their developing culture for many centuries.
It wasn’t until liberalism morphed into the modern varieties (e.g. modern liberalism/communism/socialism/neo-liberalism) and combined with atheism to attack our centuries old culture that we ended up with this sinking ship.
And when the lib faction of the conservative party took power (that would be the neo-conservatives), it was just one brand of modern liberalism against another locking us into a branding scenario with no hope.
Trying to piece together what scattered documentation remains of some occultic neo-pagan era stuff into disparate neo-pagan splinter groups and offering that as the salvation of the white race is really rather stupid don’t you think?
I’ve studied it all in depth and I think it’s stupid. Not dumb: stupid. Those ancient religions are long gone and they never had the necessary unifying, protecting, and innovating power that Christianity showed it did before modern liberalism corrupted it.
Posted by Unemployed WASP at 6:12 PM on April 20
Hum… I don’t know what exactly the pope tried to say, but the OFFICIAL POSITION of the Catholic Church about immigration has three important points :
1) THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE WHERE IMMIGRANTS COME MUST AGREE AND CANNOT BE FORCED
2) THE IMMIGRANTS MUST RESPECT THE COUNTRY, ITS PEOPLE, ITS LAWS AND ITS CULTURE
3) THE PEOPLE DO NOT HAVE TO WELCOME IMMIGRANTS IF ITS OWN CULTURE AND IDENTITY IS THREATENED
Posted by at 6:30 PM on April 20
To Whiteplight
The vikings were not christians and they did more then torment the peoples of Europe. Christianity truimphed in Europe because Europeans saw something attractive in it! It was the monks who kept education alive in medievel Europe and the great universities of England, France and Germany started as seminaries. Christianity started in the middle east, so what? Are numerals come from India and many words in the English language are rooted in Arabic, Hindi etc.
Posted by AF at 7:34 PM on April 20
“Italy is shipping them back to Africa but I guess that’s different.”
Posted by Jim
………………..
Shippping them back? I’m afraid they are not! There certainly is no evidence of it. I just spent two weeks in Milan, and as I wrote in an other post (not printed) they are seen EVERYWHERE! There was even news in the papers about more arivals being rescued at sea and taken to shelter.
Milan is getting to look just like Paris. It is thronged with them. Italy, already one of the most crowded countries on earth, is being flooded with still more humanity. All of it from the teeming lands of Afro-Asia. This indiscriminate quest for more souls is sheer madness.
Posted by ghw at 8:03 PM on April 20
White Plight, Believe as you will but I think it is YOU and the so-called “mainstream” Christianity and all it’s SOCIAL Gospel of inclusion of the whole world (turn the other cheek, etc) that is the problem. Guess you think the majority of Christian Churches are right, but I doubt that Jesus would agree with you. IF you read and STUDY your Bible and put it in proper order and understanding along with a good Concordance, then maybe you wouldn’t rant so much against those you call, “white separatists”! Where did you get that idea from anyhow ? Makes you look paranoid, foolish or ignorant.
Posted by at 8:27 PM on April 20
Is the Pope also advocating greater Muslim invasion of Europe, or is it just Catholic Hispanic takeover of America?
Posted by factualist at 8:30 PM on April 20
The Pope is simply looking to expand the power of the Roman Catholic Church. That’s the purpose behind what he is doing. I’m not Catholic and don’t condone a lot of what the Catholic Church teaches and does. But I cannot fault him for trying to expand his power. Every organization that survives does the same thing with a measure of success or they wouldn’t survive. The Catholic Church has been very successful. The problem is that us “caucasions” don’t take a page from their playbook and protect/expand our nation’s interests and culture.
Posted by Unemployed WASP at 12:41 AM on April 21
I’m happy to see pointed spirited debate concerning the merits of Christian versus pagan versus materialist philosophys. Carl Jung in my opinion labored well to shed light on the inner meanings of different religious symbols. Joseph Cambell also did allot in this area with his study’s in primitive mythology.
Posted by Petrarch at 1:31 AM on April 21
“What was it about the “grass roots” of the northern part of the Germanic city-states and Scandinavia that made them susceptible to want to “rebel” against the then-almighty Roman Church, and start a whole new branch of Christianity. “
Posted by Question Diversity
One should remember that Protestant movements grew up just about all over Europe, until they were suppressed by the Counter-Reformation. For instance, France had quite a number of Huguenots, until most of them were killed or driven out. And the Hapsburgs forcibly restored Catholicism in their domains, large parts of which had at first gone Protestant. In Italy and Spain, the Inquisition took care of most dissenters.
It seems that those lands closer to the power of Rome (by that I mean the Vatican, not ancient Rome) were forcibly kept Catholic or were restored to Catholicism. And also as Whiteplight said, “The less time ancient Rome had occupied an area, the easier it was for it to drift from the Church.”
Oddly, Ireland (where no Roman soldier ever set foot) was the exception. It remained the most loyal “daughter” of Rome (though it never was in the family!) … but largely as a gesture of defiance to England which had gone Protestant.
Incidentally, HenryVIII was not especially found of Protestants and never considered himself one. He simply wanted Rome to keep out of English affairs and leave those to him. But things gathered momentum and went farther than he expected.
Posted by ghw at 2:03 AM on April 21
Having recently visited the Vatican on holiday, there is enough room there to accommodate at least ten thousand if they pack them in the way they normally live in their own countries. But valuable treasures will be destroyed and lost for ever. Of course they could be sold off now to send charity such as food-aid to Africa, but of course these immigrants to the Vatican would have to stay inside for the Italians are getting very active in removing from their country undesirable criminal immigrants who are robbing and raping Italian citizens.
What a mess the world is becoming.
Posted by Brian Deller at 7:46 AM on April 21
Having power depends on having a multitude of people that will follow you, idealy they follow without question. Those that follow do not necessarily need to be all that intelligent.
Both regilious and secular leaders have always known that he who contolls the mob has real power.
Posted by Daniel at 11:51 AM on April 21
Does anyone remember the footage, famous footage, of the helicopter that couldn’t get off the ground during the fall of Saigon?
That’s what is happening throughout the West.
And yet, they clammer for more.
I used to visit Spiked online quite regularly because some of the writers really appealed to my love for freedom of speech. Some on ocassion still do. But it is actually campaigning for open borders and literally says the more the merrier. I won’t quote my post to them here, but you can check it out. It’s under the comments section of an article published a few weeks ago in March by Nathalie Rothschild. Her ambition in life is to convert Great Britain into an immigrant sponge; apparently it’s a magical sponge. It sops up immigrants and squeezes out natives.
Their being squeezed into a bucket of hopelessness and hoped for extinction is accompanied of course with the usual immature ridicule and ignorant sarcasm.
Posted by Dedalus at 12:43 PM on April 21
>>>Hordes of Africans can be seen daily lounging against the Vatican walls, dancing, shouting, hawking cheap goods and relieving themselves
Not one whit different from the Mexican trash we’re collectively so angry over. Third-worlders are simply too different, too out of touch with what we consider socially acceptable behavior. So why on earth should we Whites meekly allow this human garbage to flood over our borders?
Time for all of us to take a stand. Against immigration and demand the immediate deportation of all third-world primtives!
Posted by Fed Up at 1:00 PM on April 21
If the pope is so fond of invading welfare soaks, why doesn’t he invite them all to live with him at the Vatican?
Posted by Michael C. Scott at 1:37 PM on April 21
Jesus’s invitation to Gentiles to be permitted to enter the Kingdom of Heaven which was intended for the chosen people,the Jews, caused him and his followers big trouble 2000 years ago and its still causing trouble today.
I like Catholicism because it’s ancient,got lots of rituals,great music,incense,and wonderful history, it has strict rules and it doesn’t bend to suit PC. Still though,it suffers from the same problem that all of Christianity does, namely, the desire to welcome all comers. Thats fine as long as newcomers stay in their own countrys and can still practice their own beliefs alongside the new, but todays multicult and easy travel allows these millions to drift around the world till they find a host country to keep them and “Christian” charity says we must take them in. It appears that Christian Religious leaders, like the Pope, cannot stay true to Jesus’ teaching and also tell them (the converts and immigrants) to clear off, so he’s between a rock and a hard place. Also note that it’s not just a Catholic thing, its a problem for all Christians set up by Jesus.
These Catholic Priests who are taking in illegals,giving sanctuary and so forth are most likely the Catholics Priests who were taken in by Liberation Theology, a Marxist ideology which Pope Benedict has spoken out against on more than one occasion when he was Cardinal Ratzinger.http://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/RATZRELA.HTM
Maybe the Pope is talking about legal immigrants - like me!. Anyway, until I hear him say you must take illegals I’ll go with official church doctrine which is to obey national laws, ‘render unto Caesar…”.
Arc.
Posted by Arcadian at 2:20 PM on April 21
“Incidentally, HenryVIII was not especially found of Protestants and never considered himself one. He simply wanted Rome to keep out of English affairs and leave those to him.”
………….
This point is little known but true. Although having differences with the Pope, mainly over his marriages, Henry always considered himself an English Catholic. He just wanted control over the church in England and to have the Pope stay out of English politics.
Henry had just divorced Catherine of Aragon, a Spanish princess and aunt of the Spanish & German emperor, Charles V. The Pope was in Italy, which was then controlled by Catherine’s nephew Charles. Rome had been sacked and occupied by troops of Charles. The Pope, virtually a captive, was in no position to talk back and had to do Charles’ bidding. So he denied the divorce and excommunicated Henry. It was all political.
Many European monarchs, over the centuries, had squabbles with the Vatican, and some were even excommunicated, but they did not consider that they had left the Church, and they did not (necessarily) become Protestants.
Posted by ghw at 4:28 PM on April 21
Back in the early middle ages the teachings of the Catholic church were thoroughly influenced by Gnostic christinaity.
Gnosticism (greek from the word gnosis meaning knowledge)provided scientific and philosophical principles for human biological transcendance.
Catholicism provided the other half.
Theology.
In other words, Catholicism was a complete blueprint for the human growth and decision making process.
Unfortunately, for all involved, the vatican hierarchy foresaw that their future needed more Catholics through the next thousand years.
Problem for them was that a well rounded Catholic was a free thinker and would eventually break away from the vaticans powerful political influence.
So they came up with a plan to do away with Gnostic Christianity, burnded up the Gnostic gospels and burned at the stake anyone who held on to the Gnostic part of the faith.
When the Vatican did away with Gnosticism people became easier to influence with theology and brought to heel under vatican politics.
Politics is why the Catholic church puts a fright into people.
Lets just be clear about it.
The Churches stand on immigration in the face of American sufferage makes their intent clear.
Posted by Colt at 5:52 PM on April 21
Let me get this straight…remover the bull writings, encyclicals, early church fathers, christian laymen wrtings, apostle writings apart from the Bible, priestly writings, bishop writings, Papal writings, then subtract 7 books from the Old and at least 3-4 from the new and finally add words to Romans 3:28 such as alone after faith to structure it’s contents to your liking.
Then, reinterpret and invent entirely new concepts such as once saved, always saved, sola fide, sola scriptora, then take infallible truth from men never intending to claim infalliblity and all the while lecture the original Christian church, the church comunity upon which Jesus himself personally and Peter overseen until his death? All of this of course occurs over a thousand years after the death of Christ so as to invoke no rebuke and satisfy the insatiable personal appetite for veneration.
This is the course we should follow instead of the Catholic Church? I call it customized christianity, the dumbed down version.
Posted by at 2:18 AM on April 22
“Politics is why the Catholic church puts a fright into people.
Lets just be clear about it.”
The Catholic church has ALWAYS meddled in politics. The pope once had armies. Let’s remember that the Pope is not just a religious leader, he is also a prince, a ruler, a head of state.
Posted by at 2:52 AM on April 22
Pope Benedict XVI is a very good man and spiritual leader. I feel he should stick to spiritual matters and avoid politics that don’t directly affect the spiritual well being of a mostly Catholic country. Immigration may be a compassionate issue, but it is not a religious or spiritual issue. Pope Benedict XVI should remember that he is not Innocent III, nor are we in the Middle Ages. I would also ask his holiness: if Catholic immigrants are good, why aren’t Muslim immigrants bad for a traditionally Catholic country?
Posted by Sardonicus at 9:28 AM on April 22
“Pope Benedict XVI urged the nation’s Roman Catholic bishops and cardinals Wednesday to support new immigrants to the United States.”
Even before his first month was out, I was calling him ‘Benedict Arnold.’
Has he not heard of Hilaire Belloc, who said of the Catholic Chuch, “The Faith is Europe; Europe is the Faith”????
There’s a term for a false religious leader like this, which the Apostles gave us, 2000 years ago….
Antichrist.
Posted by Fr. John at 9:50 AM on April 22
I’ll think about welcoming immigrants when the Pope welcomes Muslim immigrants to Vatican City.
Posted by ALLAN at 10:25 AM on April 22
>>>Pope is not just a religious leader, he is also a prince, a ruler, a head of state.
He is also a USELESS ANACHRONISM! Hopelessly out of touch with the REAL WORLD and serving ONLY the Roman Catholic Church.
Posted by Fed Up at 1:19 PM on April 22
The Pope has no business telling Americans whom or what we should welcome into our country. Firstly, he (the Roman Catholic Church) does NOT support the third-world parasites — that’s dumped on us American taxpayers. Secondly, he DOES NOT have to live next door to this human trash. Unfortunately, too many of us White Americans have had first-hand experience living next to or among Mexican primitives. Thus we have a right NOT to want, much less welcome any more into our country.
Posted by Fed Up at 2:04 PM on April 22
IN RESPONSE TO: Posted by at 2:18 AM on April 22
This is an argument after the fact. The Catholic Church is a very human institution, evolving over hundreds of years. To suggest it is eternal, the embodiment of absolute truth, is thus extremely naive, in my opinion.
Let’s be real here. The Catholic Church WAS/IS a very successful institution, but to equate its success to its being “the One True Religion”, or even “the only legitimate form of Christianity” for that matter, is logically unsound.
The polytheistic religion of ancient Rome was highly successful in uniting a group of people, providing them with a moral code, motives/meanings for having a particular family structure, national pride, etc. When it broke down, pagan Rome also broke down (the breakdown, at least, correlated with the fall; this doesn’t necessarily imply causation). Does that mean that particular religion was the “One True Religion”? Or the only legitimate “polytheistic faith system”?
Religion is certainly vital to any group of people. But one of the strengths of the West has been its ability to think outside of the religious box, to apply scientific rigor to the world in an attempt to come to a better understanding of it. This is movement — the idea that things are not static, but changing; that things evolve, ideas evolve, cultures evolve. It is this very restlessness of mind and matter that has made the West strong, adaptable. Now some would suggest this also brought with it the seed of the West’s eventual destruction. I wouldn’t deny that, in principle, at least in part. But the fact is, every nation, at any given point in time, carries within itself the seed of its eventual destruction. And just because a nation or an ethnic entity breaks down at some point does not mean it won’t reconstitute itself in a different form at some point in the future.
The West is not just Christianity. It’s certainly not just Catholicism. The West is a tradition stretching over thousands of years and it includes paganism as well as Christianity, superstition as well as the highest achievements of science. Many people argue that the death of Christianity, broadly, and the death of Catholicism, more narrowly (if it is accurate to call it “death” at this point), is the primary reason for the decline of the West. I disagree. Again, I do not deny the important role religion plays in the unity and identity and strength of a people. But, BUT…the West has gone through similar transitions before. The White race is a powerful and innovative race. To suggest it will die if its religion dies is, I think, to imply that the White race is rather weak and one-dimensional. And we know from history that this is not the case. The death of the West’s religion very well may mean the death of the West AS WE HAVE KNOWN IT, but I have high hopes that it will reconstitute itself around a new worldview, an upgraded religious vision, perhaps, or maybe a purely scientific one, based on a more deistic type outlook (I’m merely speculating here), and that the movement of foreign peoples into Western territory which we are witnessing now will be sorted out in the coming centuries. I imagine there’ll be wars, social upheaval, massive destruction, disease, famine, etc., before the dust settles and the New West is born. After all, that’s what happened during the transition from ancient Rome to medieval Europe. But I don’t take the narrow view that Christianity IS the West, and the West is dying, as if for good. I think there is good reason to believe that hundreds of years from now, there’ll be a New Western World, and it may look a heck of a lot different than the one we’ve known, but it will be just as viable as previous incarnations of the West, and will make its mark in its own unique ways.
Posted by Greg at 2:27 PM on April 22
White Plight, Believe as you will but I think it is YOU and the so-called “mainstream” Christianity and all it’s SOCIAL Gospel of inclusion of the whole world (turn the other cheek, etc) that is the problem. Guess you think the majority of Christian Churches are right, but I doubt that Jesus would agree with you. IF you read and STUDY your Bible and put it in proper order and understanding along with a good Concordance, then maybe you wouldn’t rant so much against those you call, “white separatists”! Where did you get that idea from anyhow ? Makes you look paranoid, foolish or ignorant.
Posted by at 8:27 PM on April 20
> I rant against white seperatists?? No, I write critical comments at times supporting white seperatism and sometimes criticizing what I see as stumbling blocks to the movement. I have been posting, even under different handles, here for years.
I am also a student of history for all my life and educated as a doctor. I know the bible well enough as well as the criticisms of it. I can see that you have never done anything but use information to re-enforce your assuptions, not challenge them. I thought this forum was for provoking thoughtful ideas helpful to the movement, not chasing away anyone who threatens your assumptions.
As for Jesus, he supposedly speaks pretty clearly in the Beatitudes; Love your nieighbor, enemies, turn the cheek to insult and abuse, be meek, be poor, suffer for me, - Man, who is ignorant? All the hate stuff came with Paul and other later biblical forgings by supposed Christian fathers.
I think all these people coming at me ought to put down their bibles for once and read actual history. One clear classic is “The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire” by Gibbon. It is an English language classic and the standard as the conpenulum of mid to late Roman History. A Christian himself, he was honest enough to write objectively from real records, not preached attitudes.
Posted by Whiteplight at 3:34 PM on April 22
“I come as a friend, a preacher of the Gospel and one with great respect for your vast pluralistic society,” he said.
Pluralistic? Why did he have to say that? Out of thousands of things he could have said, couldn’t he find something else to praise?
I do not consider that a friendly or respectful remark. He is pandering to the “minorities”. To me, as a beleaguered American, it is offensive.
Posted by at 5:49 PM on April 22
I agree with Fr. John. We have so many false teachers in the churches of today, it is impossible to list them all. It’s all about a one world “religion”, a one world economic sytem (babylon) a one world “race” (niscegnation) with the “masters” ruling over us all.
Posted by at 9:20 PM on April 22
I will say this for the Pope. Catholics in many ways are suffering the same fate at white people. There are many forces and changes at work in this world. My disagreement with the Pope on the issue of immigration is with the larger issue of overpopulation. People are migrating today overwhelmingly due to lack of opportunities, resources, and overpopulation of their homelands. Our foreign policy should reward those countries who find ways to depopulate back to sustainable population numbers. It should not reward illegals from those countries who come here and consumre our resources and bring their cultural imperialistic ways with them.
Posted by Elrey Jones at 10:07 PM on April 22
The Pope may be concerned that so many Latino immigrants to the United States leave the church for Pentecostal churches. An “…estimated 1.3 Latino Catholics…have joined Pentecostal congregations since immigrating to the United States, according to a survey released in February by the Pew Forum on Religion in Public Life.” (Fernanda Santos, “A Populist Shift Confronts the U.S. Catholic Church,” New York Times , April 20, 2008, p.33.)
The Catholic bishops clearly want amnesty for illegals. In another article in the New York Times on the same date (Daniel J. Wakin and Julia Preston, “Speaking Up for Immigrants, Pontiff Touches a Flash Point,” p.36), there is no doubt what lower officials think. “Monsignor Marino…who also heads the Brooklyn Diocese’s Catholic Migration Office, said, ‘In my judgment, immigrants are heroes.’”
Posted by Dagworthy at 3:04 AM on April 23
“I think all these people coming at me ought to put down their bibles for once and read actual history. One clear classic is “The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire” by Gibbon. It is an English language classic and the standard as the conpenulum of mid to late Roman History. A Christian himself, he was honest enough to write objectively from real records, not preached attitudes.”
Gibbon was NO Christian. Better to speak of Will Durant, if you want honest reportage of History, and how the West shapes and changes a man.
He started out an atheist, and after writing his ‘Civilization’ series, converted to Christianity. THAT IS THE ESSENCE of CHRISTENDOM, and why we are ontologically different than the ‘nations round about us.’ It is only those certifiably insane (liberals, as the recent article showed!- LOL) that believe otherwise.
Posted by Fr. John at 7:33 AM on April 23
I believe, it’s essential that the West’s Christian heritage is maintained and stoutly safeguarded.
However, Catholicism is not the interpretation of Christianity that should be perceived as the true form. It’s the ancient form that should take precedence.
Orthodox Christianity follows and practices the ancient form more closely than does Catholicism and so does Methodism, Lutheranism and Presbyterianism, by way of further examples.
Christianity is the only faith that has the power to challenge the present re-emergence of that old political threat masquerading as a religion, ie, Islam.
The West has got to urgently regenerate and fearlessly promote its collective Christian heritage once again, if it wants to be saved at all.
By the way, I was born into an ancient Catholic family tree, but became disillusioned with Catholicism fifteen years ago.
Posted by A Swain at 9:11 AM on April 23
I just reread the entire thread. Nobody suggested the Catholic Church was an embodiment of absolute truth except you in your argument after the fact. What we did suggest is that the Holy Roman Empire unified western civilization, protecting and developing it until the age of enlightenment with the restored Roman Catholic Church playing a pivotal part.
I see you acknowledge that the Catholic Church was and is a very successful institution. That’s good. Because they were and are. Obviously, they are not “the One True Religion” or “the only legitimate form of Christianity.” Agreed.
You make a good point about the polytheistic religion of ancient Rome also being highly successful in its time. A major reason was there willingness to accept any kind of occultic paganism in their realm, no matter how henious, as long as the pagans did not offend the Roman gods and offered worship once a year acknowledging the Roman Emperor as god (e.g. the imperial cult in ancient Rome).
The Jews would not do this; however, and rebelled leading to the First Jewish-Roman War. The Christians wouldn’t either. Thus the true “crime” of the persecuted Christians was their refusal to do homage to the Roman gods, including the emperor.
Christianity is not compatible with paganism and vice-versa. Their system of beliefs contradict each other. As a result, they would often lock deadly struggle with each other. Eventually, Christianity won.
I notice you acknowledge that “Religion is certainly vital to any group of people.” I agree. It is!
Google articles called: 1) Curbing Atheism and 1) The Historic Alliance of christianity and Science
I do agree with you that change is inevitable; however, often change is simply history repeating making history an excellent guide to change.
“The West is not just Christianity. It’s certainly not just Catholicism. The West is a tradition stretching over thousands of years and it includes paganism as well as Christianity, superstition as well as the highest achievements of science.”
Agreed. However, paganism and Christianity are diametrically opposed to each other. And those that try to synthesize them are making many false assertions. Which is why no prominent renown scholar has ever cosigned the attempts of pagan attempts to do so.
To restore the morality of the West is to restore it’s predominant belief system. And that would be the Christianity that guided and protected it since the days of the ancient Roman Empire.
Posted by Unemployed WASP at 1:42 PM on April 23
“Pluralistic? Why did he have to say that? Out of thousands of things he could have said, couldn’t he find something else to praise?”
Good question. Pluralism is just another word for Diversity. We’ve been having this concept pushed on us from all sides for the last twenty years. Whatever word you use, I’m sick of it. You can take your “pluralism” and go home.
Oh, and by the way, since when has the Catholic church ever encouraged pluralism in Cathoiic countries? It’s like Islam in that respect. The inquisition saw to it that Catholic countries stayed strictly Catholic.
Posted by at 4:06 PM on April 23
To Greg
With such low birth rates among white western people what makes you certain in a hundred years they will be a “NEW WEST”. The white race is also rapidly ageing, so in the event of future conflict who will do the fighting?
Posted by AD at 6:13 PM on April 23
“His travels and appearances are as tightly scripted and protected as any politician’s.”
Posted by at 7:03 AM
Not surprising. The pope is the ruler of the Vatican, a sovereign state. He is a “head of state”, and thus he IS a policitian.
Posted by at 7:15 PM on April 23
Why not urge the Pope to open up the borders of Vatican City for hordes of third-world immigrants? Turnabout is fair play
Posted by Boethius at 12:07 AM on April 24
To Greg
With such low birth rates among white western people what makes you certain in a hundred years they will be a “NEW WEST”. The white race is also rapidly ageing, so in the event of future conflict who will do the fighting?
Posted by AD at 6:13 PM on April 23
I didn’t mean to imply in my post that it was inevitable that there will one day be a New West. And as far as a time frame, who knows? All I meant to suggest is that 1) Whites have historically been a very successful group, and 2) There are precendents for the rebirth of civilizations. It’s therefore reasonable to conclude that at some point in the future a New West may be born if the current configuration dies.
I realize there is a demographic problem. But let’s remember that the Black Plague wiped out a good chunk of Europeans at one time, and look at all the millions killed in the West’s various wars. Demographics can change when situations change. We had a booming birthrate in the West and then a slowdown, which is not atypical of a high civilization. If all the comforts of our modern society were gone, who knows what may happen.
Look, I’ll be the first to join the bandwagon of those who see trouble on the horizon for the West. But all I’m saying is that as bleak as it may look, there’s still reason to hope for a rebirth down the road somewhere. I imagine it’ll be something we’ll never live to see.
Posted by Greg at 2:17 PM on April 24
“The nasty secret about Christianity is that is was created with multiculturalism in mind. Embrace this mind virus at your own peril. At least have the common decency to worship a god that shares your own identity instead of embracing that of another ethnic group. The idea is to worship a god who thinks YOU are the chose people.”
Posted by Xenophon at 10:58 AM on April 19
That’s right, Xenophon! I have been saying this for a long time on Amren. I have an article in my collection titled, “Christianity as a Thought Virus.” These Bible thumping seperatists are blind to the seeds of their own demise. It is up to seperatists like us to point out to them that Christianity hijacked Europe through trickery, brainwashing, and violence. It indoctrinates the young before they can think for themselves just as any cult would.
Also, the early success of Christianity was largely due to the practice of collectivism. That is, rich converts donated all their belongings, believing the end was near (this was a real and huge end time movement in the second and third centuries) and that wealth would be used to sustain poorer converts. The practices of small Jewish asthetic groups like the Essenes became available to the larger population of the Roman world. It was the first example of a socialistic (in fact communist) welfare system in the history of the world. This was the overwhelming reason for the huge conversion in that time. Reference; Gibbon, The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire.
Many also don’t realize that the Christian ban on suicide was due to the large numbers threw themselves at the Roman garrisons in an ancient styled Cop Kill suicides. This put a lot of pressure on the early church that had to work to suppress converts from bringing the persecution of the Roman State on them as a whole. This famous willingness to die was appropriated by an emperor or two in providing the Romans with entertainment via the more well known and often horrible assistance of that early Christian death wish.
And to those who always opine that Christianity allowed Europe to stand against the Islamic pressures it must be noted that Greece fought for its own defense against its enemies including Persia without the Jewish or Christian God but with the “help” of gods like Zeus and Apollo, etc. Early Christian leaders like Clovis and Charles Martel were nominal Christians, their allegiance was more a political aliance with Rome than a spiritual one. This is easy to descern in the details of the history of the Merovingians and the Carolingian dynasties on forward. But the point is that Europe would have resisted regardless who the invader was and regardless of what God or gods they claimed. Better still is to have a God that has “chosen you as his people.” Sometimes I think that is where anti-Jewish sentiment is rooted - jealousy. But even Ghengis Kahn followed a God who told him to go out and subdue the world through murder. Just about every conquering, martial people I can think of had a God that encouraged them to conquer with Allah being the most visible today.
Posted by Whiteplight at 2:25 PM on April 24
I didn’t mean to imply in my post that it was inevitable that there will one day be a New West. All I meant to suggest is that …. There are precendents for the rebirth of civilizations. It’s therefore reasonable to conclude that at some point in the future a New West may be born if the current configuration dies.
Greg
……………………………
I don’t know about that statement, Greg. I don’t think a civilization is ever “re-born”. I can’t think of any examples.
Rather, when an old civilization dies, another eventually springs up in its place (hopefully). But it is never the same. Certainly, the Middle Ages, and the Renaissance, while preserving much (or at least some) of the culture of Greece and Rome, could never be called a new Classical Age. It was “rebirth” of civilization, if you wish to call it that, but of a new civilization, not of the old one. Once dead, a creature or a culture never returns to life again. It’s gone forever.
I’ll agree with you that history is full of surprises and there’s still reason for hope. There has to be.
Posted by ghw at 4:01 PM on April 24
So Whiteplight, maybe Europeans should go back to worshipping Odin, Loki, Thor, etc(as a boy I loved reading norse legends and stories). However christianity also embraced alot of european paganism (christmas,easter). At the moment mind you the only thought virus in Europe is political correctness, liberalism and socialism!
To Greg, I understand your point and I hope for a western rivival but I just can’t see it happening. What is happening in the west is what happened to all ancient civilizations (Aztec, Greek, Byzantine) DEATH. Europe recovered from the plague, but then at that time there was no feminism and mass immigration and abortion and other stuff that push down the white numbers.
Posted by AD at 7:30 PM on April 24
“At the moment mind you the only thought virus in Europe is political correctness, liberalism and socialism!”
Posted by AD at 7:30 PM on April 24
But Western European socialism is Christian styled. It is only that Western Europeans reject the control of the church; the cause and effect remains Christianity. Look at how the Europeans are crucifying themselves! No pre-Christian European would be doing that!
Scandinavia is certainly not the same one that once produced such courageous explorers who not just raided as one poster suggested, but settled as is well known to historians and the people living where they know Scandinavian Danes and Vikings raided and settled - like Ireland,Scotland and specifically Yorkshre, in England as well as Northumbria. But they ruled in Scicily for some time as well.
I argue that for any white seperatist movement to succeed, it would have to be a community, which implies a kind of socialism - national socialism. It ought to be possible to have that without an ugly repeat of Germany’s failure with it in the 20th century. I am always trying to use my writing to steer the collective thinking in that direction - without storm troopers, etc. I have posted a great deal in that vein in the past and I will continue because it is my learned (if I may say that) opinion that this is the only way we can succeed. Otherwise we are just taking part in a web site that hosts rants from unhappy white people. (Who can’t agree on a direction forward).
I wasn’t necessarily saying that we ought to have Odin or a pre-Christian war god, (although it might be better than a vengeful God that punishes his own people to death). I also refer to the Celts who had a pretty well developed method of governing and continuing a real European tradition of foundation religion that linked the people to their land. (The Romans made a point in running down and exterminating the Druid leaders as part of subduing the Gauls and Britons). A study of Gothic archecture quickly informs the student that the Gothic arch is nothing but a stone replication of a sacred oak grove, the type that druids used in their native rites. That also lured more folk into the churches, no stone (trick) unturned! Real culture is linked to the land - the soil. Those who can’t understand that will end up homeless and their culture will die.
I think that everyone who posts on Amren ought to go out and rent several films on the subject of Northern European relgion and legend. Try finding “Dark Kingdom” for starts. The original name was The Ring of the Nibelungen, but the American importers were afraid that it would be seen as a white supremecist film. They also cut out a lot of valuable footage that dealt with the comparison and advent of Christianity in Europe because they were afraid of offending Christians in America. But it is still a great introduction to the story cycle. Then read up on the real history of the Merovingian dynasty and the real Brunhilda. “Beowulf and Fafmir” is another good one for getting your feet wet. While doing this, find a cd of Wagner excerpt’s from his opera of the Ring Cycle and steep yourself in it. Form a mental/emotional link between it all. Then, you might be said to have some feel for real European culture.
And also AD; The Byzatnine Empire lasted until the 14th century. Few Americans realize that.
Posted by Whiteplight at 12:14 AM on April 25
IN RESPONSE TO: Posted by ghw at 4:01 PM on April 24
GHW, what you say in your post is exactly what I was trying to get across. Perhaps I wasn’t clear. The precedent I’m thinking of in particular is the transition from the Roman Empire to Medieval Europe. These are both “Western Civilizations”, but their features were vastly different. What I’m suggesting is that the West as we know it today — as we have known it for the last several hundred years — may be invaded by foreign peoples and may go the way of the Roman Empire. But as bleak as such a scenario as that may be, as long as there are Whites left who have the will, I can foresee them forming new alliances, occupying different territories, and forming an entirely new civilization. As different from ours today as Medieval Europe was from Rome.
Posted by Greg at 12:25 AM on April 25
“I don’t think a civilization is ever “re-born”. I can’t think of any examples.”
——————
Agreed. Some of them, when desperately ill, have been resusitated or “revived” (eg. China several times in the past) — but that’s only when they were not entirely dead. Once dead, nothing comes back. Perhaps revival was the word Greg meant to use.
Posted by at 5:13 AM on April 25
“First Things” is perhaps the most prestigious journal of Catholic thinking on theological and social issues. The May issue contains a fairly strong piece challenging the US Catholic bishops for their policies on immigration, probably the first such article ever published by a leading journal of Catholic thought. Everyone should read it. Something is happening!
Posted by at 11:06 PM on April 25
Whiteplight
You make some very intersting points and I do generally enjoy reading your posts. However Europeans are crucifying themselves because of the collective guilt trip of what Hitler did in WW2! Hitler made being a European nationalist a bad thing and now when even Bishops and priests speak against multiculturalism and immigration the PC brigade slap the “nazi” tag on them. However, unlike the liberal western churches I’ve always had a soft spot for the Russian Orthodox Church, over in Moscow the Patriarch goes on patriotic rallies, how brilliant is that!
Posted by AD at 8:29 AM on April 26
It is absurd to claim that Christianity has spurred the West’s problems. How is it that for centuries while we were the most Christian we were also the most racially conscious? Now we aren’t as Christian and just look at us. Look at Europe. Liberalism has infiltrated our churches; not the other way around.
Posted by Courtney at 9:06 PM on April 27
“How is it that for centuries while we were the most Christian we were also the most racially conscious? “
If by “we” you mean Americans, perhaps so. But Europeans were never “racially conscious”. They had no reason to be so — not until fairly recently, as other races were a novelty there, rarely seen outside the big cities, and were not there in any numbers, nor as settlers or immigrants. This situation Europeans are facing is something new, and they were unprepared for it.
Posted by at 5:10 PM on April 28