Comments
Yeah - it’s a nice gesture and all, but just wait until those “nice Haitians, Hispanics” etc decide to emigrate en-mass to the “Mormon strongholds” of the Central U.S.
Posted by Obscuratus at 6:04 PM on January 22
In all honesty, isn’t this exactly what all other major Christian denominations have been doing? Catholic churches all over the country are harboring illegals; here in Arkansas, a coalition of mainstream Protestant churches has organized to lobby on behalf of illegals. For some reason, this article focusing on “Mormons” in the middle of election season seems like an underhanded jab at Mitt Romney. Now that Duncan Hunter and Fred Thompson are out of the race and Ron Paul appears to be going nowhere, Mitt Romney may be our last hope at getting someone into the White House that will actually do something about the illegal immigration problem. He took a stand against illegal immigration in a liberal state before immigration became the big issue that it is today. Plus, NumbersUSA gives him high marks virtually across the board for his plans to deal with illegals.
Posted by Conrad R. at 6:22 PM on January 22
I wonder how these Mormons will feel after one of these Haitians beds down one of their daughters and then a few black grandchildren come along.
Posted by RJS at 6:37 PM on January 22
“Mormons evangelizing Haitians in Miami.”
Disgraceful! I have seen these Mormon missionaries in New York City evangenlzing among the Dominicans. They have a missionary center here. All white, clean-cut, neatly dressed, these fresh-faced young white men stand out like a sore thumb among the Dominicans and blacks.
They physically represent the America that used to be. And they’re foolishly campaigning for its destruction. Pathetic! These brainwashed, well-meaning young men don’t eevn know who they (racially) are. Their loyalty is only to religion, not race. (Apparently they do not send out their young women for missionary work.) I wonder how many Dominican wives they bring back to Utah?
Posted by at 6:52 PM on January 22
While nothing can eliminate the racial gap, a complete catastrophe like Haiti might be at least improved on the margin by a dose of Mormon do-goodery.
I’m sure Haiti was a much saner and more pleasant place when it was being run by the US Marines.
Posted by Irish at 8:04 PM on January 22
I like the Mormons work ethic, but I don’t trust them or their church. I certainly don’t want them increasing their numbers, or using immigration to increase their numbers.
Posted by Ronduck at 8:11 PM on January 22
This article doesn’t surprise me. Mormon missionaries get their baptism numbers up by targeting uneducated and desperate people. I should know: I used to be one.
If you’re going to tell fantastic stories about a golden book translated with magic spectacles then you’ve got to take your case to uneducated people who don’t know better and desperate people who’re looking for drastic change in their lives. These are often minorities.
Additionally, minorities, and lower class whites, are more often home during they day when missionaries are out proselytizing.
Posted by at 9:02 PM on January 22
The hyper-religious are joined at the hip with the egalitarian Left in the charge for mass immigration. The reasons may be different, but the baneful results will be the same. The LDS church has a lot to answer for.
Posted by Carl at 9:27 PM on January 22
They are banking on the 10% of income that mormons pay to the church, to maintain good standing!
Posted by at 9:29 PM on January 22
“These white, clean-cut, neatly dressed, fresh-faced young white men stand out like a sore thumb among the Dominicans and blacks. They physically represent the America that used to be. I wonder how many Dominican wives they bring back to Utah? “
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I wonder too. As I recall, the Mormon elders received a miraculous “revelation” from heaven …. while happening also to be under intense pressure from Andy Young and Washington, DC.. (Imagine that!) All of a sudden, they saw the light and it was realized that it was time for integration.
Anyone who visited Utah before that was impressed with the all-white and very wholesome look of its population. No longer! Andrew Young and his fellow mulattos have made their point, and Utah is on the same downward course as the rest of the nation.
Georgia mulattoes rule! Is this what it has come to?
Posted by at 9:38 PM on January 22
Let’s bus a few thousand to Salt Lake City, and maybe after a few million gang rapes later, they will come around
Posted by at 9:51 PM on January 22
Maybe that’s just what the Mormons need, a bunch of Haitians running wild in Salt Lake City to wisen them up.
Posted by at 9:54 PM on January 22
This is an extremely serious issue. All mormons are preachers. It is their duty to play that role in their religion. If the leaders of the mormon faith have decided this is their policy and what their faith says about immigrants, then all mormons are bound to it…..including Mitt Romney.
Posted by at 9:59 PM on January 22
They didn’t make ” good ” Catholics (VooDoo),why do they think will be more successful with these primitives ? You can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear.
Posted by Michigan patriot at 10:31 PM on January 22
I think that the ignorance of these above mentioned comentators is only exceeded by they’re ignorance about Mormons in general. The highest concentrations of Mormons are in Utah, Idaho, Nevada, and California.
As to “how these Mormons will feel after one of these Haitians beds down one of their daughters and then a few black grandchildren come along?” As long as they were married first in one of the Mormon Temples it would be all right. Not much you can do anyway if it is otherwise.
Young Mormon women do go out and do missionary work. Just not as in high numbers as the young men. As for young Mormons bring home “Dominican wives” that they bring back to Utah. I would say one or so every decade or so. They aren’t permitted to date while they are on their missions anyway. Most have girl friends at home.
Mormon missionaries are in every country in the world but the Islamic ones and mainland China. So there are large numbers of blacks, browns as well as whites that are being taught by them.
Posted by David Reed at 12:51 AM on January 23
It is a strange fact that the ‘Book of Mormon’ as delivered by the Angel Moroni unto Joseph Smith specifically forbade proselytizing the faith of the ‘latter day saints’ to the dusky races of the World.
This state of affairs held until the late 1960s when a convinient ‘revealation’ forestalled impending ‘civil rights’ interference.
Posted by Kenelm Digby at 6:33 AM on January 23
Funny, Christianity used to be called ‘The White Man’s religion.’
So, either we have had a revelation from the Almighty, or it no longer is the Christianity of the Ecumenical Councils, the Apostles, or the Church of the Ages.
I have to opt for the latter, as I still believe in the former.
And even though I believe Mormonism is not Christian, it has merely aped the departure from that Christianity of former ages, due to the ‘spirit of the age.’ Which is why the dichotomy of White Bread fresh-faced LDS missionaries bringing Jos. Smith’s revelations to the ‘darker continent’s’ masses seems anachronistic, it is all part and parcel of the great watering down of the “faith once delivered…’ to whom? Everyone? No. ‘…to the saints.’
That once meant Christendom, and none other. Hard to believe the vast majority of Europeans have forgotten Belloc’s dictum: “Europe is the Faith, the Faith, Europe.”
Posted by Fr. John at 9:56 AM on January 23
Mountain Meadows , 9-11-1857
Posted by at 12:11 PM on January 23
“Apparently they do not send out their young women for missionary work…”
Posted by at 6:52 PM on January 22
Read the article again. It specifically quotes a woman missionary as one of the leaders of the program. Furthermore, nowhere does it mention illegal immigrants. Nothing here suggests that the Mormons are encouraging immigration, legal or otherwise.
I agree with Conrad R that this is an underhanded swipe at Romney to imply that he will be soft on illegal immigration. But the best they can manage is innuendo. If there was a single case of actual breaking of the immigration law, do you think the writer of this article wouldn’t have mentioned it? The Mormon church is very careful to stay within the law.
Posted by at 12:30 PM on January 23
The Mormon Church has decided to invest heavily in proselyting in the Third World or amongst Third World immigrants. Why? As someone who was raised Mormon, and who knows dozens of former Mormon missionaries, the reasoning is simple.
Most of the ex-missionaries I know who served missions in Europe, Japan, or English-speaking US missions saw few if any baptisms. In these places missionaries regularly spend 2 years in the field with maybe 1 or 2 baptisms, tops. In poor places like Latin America, however, a typical missionary gets dozens of baptisms during his 2 year service.
Mormons originally weren’t particularly dumb. Early 1800s converts to the Church may have been ignorant and unschooled, but many still had a good head on their shoulders - men like Parley Pratt, an ancestor of Mitt Romney.
Indeed, look at most really successful Mormons (or ex-Mormons) and they are not (sans Glenn Beck and Harry Reid) recent converts, but descendants from the earliest members - Mitt Romney, Jon Huntsman, etc.
But as knowledge and educational opportunities have spread, few people are willing to buy the nonsense that the Mormon Church peddles. The result is that, on average, LDS Church members get dumber by the day.
Posted by Alan at 2:28 PM on January 23
http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695245489,00.html
FYI, the Mormon Church (see link above) has come out prior to Utah’s legislative session asking that lawmakers be “humane” re: their treatment of illegal immigrants.
What does that mean, exactly?
Well on the table for the session are bills related to denying illegals driver’s licenses, denying them in-state tuition, helping the feds enforce immigration laws, and fining employers who hire them.
Not on the table are bills requiring the public flogging, tarring and feathering, and then beheading of all illegals captured inside of Utah.
Apparently the Mormon Church thinks that denying a drivers license to an illegal is “inhumane.” Thanks, Church, for showing us where you really stand - which is precisely where so many of us thought you stood, except that now, like a fool*, you have removed all doubt.
* As in the old saying: “Better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.”
Posted by Alan at 2:39 PM on January 23
I associate with lots of good Mormons. They are very good White people, have many positive sides to their lifestyle. But, I am afraid that yes, they have gone universal, gone global and the result is that they want to make every single non White human on the planet join their church. The LSD Mormon Church was exclusively White in the Priesthood up through the 70s and the Book of Mormon was/is White racialist featuring battles between two racial groups in Central America - the Lamenites (rought, barbaric people curse by God with dark, ugly skin for their wicked ways and the Nephites - handsome White people blessed by God, but also known to fall down, get proud. The Lamenites are supposed to become saved and become Godly and according to the Book of Mormon they are supposed to be cured of their dark skin and rought ways ie, become White. Well, I think most folks can understand where this is going. Yeah, the LDS Mormons are becoming more and more like idiot, clueless Judeo X’tians, might as well have Jimmy Carter as their guide.
On the plus side the LDS Mormon church insists on its members attending 3 hours of Church services each week… 3 hours of really, boring White Church people going on and on and on - this is too much for most non Whites who’s attention span is limited to about 10 minutes and after that they like to holler and shout.
Most LDS churches will stay White, but the idiot missionaries are doing terrible things like working to integrate Black Haitians into the US economy, US society.
Posted by JR at 3:59 PM on January 23
” Funny, Christianity used to be called ‘The White Man’s religion.’
Hard to believe the vast majority of Europeans have forgotten Belloc’s dictum: “Europe is the Faith; the Faith, Europe.”
Posted by Fr. John
………………………………………..
Indeed. Or as Yeats said in different words back in 1921… the center no longer holds.
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned…
Posted by ghw at 4:19 PM on January 23
It is a strange fact that the ‘Book of Mormon’ as delivered by the Angel Moroni unto Joseph Smith specifically forbade proselytizing the faith of the ‘latter day saints’ to the dusky races of the World.
I have no great respect for the Mormon Church (see my other comments here), but this is not true. The Book of Mormon certainly has choice things to say about people cursed with dark skin, but it did not bar baptism or preisthood from such people. There were, in fact, blacks Mormons in Smith’s time. The bar from the priesthood came under Brigham Young’s, not Smith’s, direction.
This state of affairs held until the late 1960s when a convinient ‘revealation’ forestalled impending ‘civil rights’ interference.
Actually it was in 1978.
Mountain Meadows , 9-11-1857
St Bartholomew’s Massacre, 8-24-1572
Lots of religious groups hold blame for various massacres and crimes.
Posted by at 4:45 PM on January 23
There are a few points I’d like to clear up. I used to be a Mormon and a missionary, so you can believe what I tell you
-Several people commented that Mormons live in predominantly white neighborhoods and may change their minds about race when the demographic changes. Because they live in such heavily white areas most have the luxury to think race is just skin deep. Most non-whites in Mormon areas are Hispanics. After that probably Polynesian.
Polynesians (based only upon observation not statistics) don’t commit theft at the same rate as Mexicans, but they do LOVE to fight. Samoans are an unusually large people and Tongans aren’t too much smaller.
-There is a fond feeling for Hispanics/Amerinds among Mormons because they believe that the people whose history is told in the Book of Mormon became the Amerinds. Interestingly, when missionaries try to hook South Americans of European ancestry by saying that their book tells about their ancestors (Amerinds)—this often causes offense because the potential convert does not want be associated with other than European ancestry.
-The 1978 revelation that blacks could hold the priesthood was purely one of convenience. Some colleges refused to play the Mormon BYU teams. Members were so embarrassed of the bigotry that they started lobbying the higher-ups to change the policy. The Church was also beginning a missionary campaign in Brazil that wouldn’t go well if anyone with any black ancestry couldn’t be fully involved. Miraculously the heavens were opened.
-The 2nd prophet of the Mormons, Brigham Young, was a flat-out race monger. He said blacks could only get to heaven as slaves, that being black was the mark of Cain spoken of in Genesis. He even said that if a white man lay with a black woman they must die! We may question the wisdom of massive Haitian immigration but wow—- slaves in heaven & killing consenting adults?
-I really don’t believe the missionaries are out to get money for their church. They really feel compelled to spread the word. It just so happens that uneducated & poor people are the only groups susceptible to their fairy-tales. That means they’re efforts will be concentrated among the lower class. Missionaries in Europe and Northern Asia have very few converts. The big successes are in South America among the uneducated.
-The Book of Mormon does not tell them not to spread the word to other races.
-All Mormon men age 19-21 are commanded to serve as missionaries. Women can go at age 21-22, but it is optional and 6 months shorter than men’s missions. The lady missionary quoted in the article is part of a couple’s mission where husband & wife go preach together.
Posted by at 6:43 PM on January 23
Spanish-speaking Mormons now outnumber white ones world-wide. Third world Morons know that as soon as they “convert,” a flood of freebees are on their way.
Do the Mormons read their own books any more?
“Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the AFRICAN RACE? If the WHITE man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the PENALTY, under the LAW OF GOD, IS DEATH ON THE SPOT. THIS WILL ALWAYS BE SO.” (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 10, page 110)
“Now we are generous with the negro. We are willing that the Negro have the highest kind of education. I would be willing to let every Negro drive a cadillac if they could afford it. I would be willing that they have all the advantages they can get out of life in the world. BUT LET THEM ENJOY THESE THINGS AMONG THEMSELVES, I think the Lord segregated the Negro and who is man to change that segregation? It reminds me of the scripture on marriage, ‘what God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.’ Only here we have the reverse of the thing— WHAT GOD HATH SEPARATED, LET NOT MAN BRING TOGETHER AGAIN.”
(Race Problems as They Affect the Church, an address by Apostle Mark E. Petersen, delivered at the Convention of Teachers of Religion on the College Level, Brigham Young University, August 27,1954)
Posted by stevepearsonnl at 10:24 PM on January 23
“Certainly the caste systems in communist countries and in India, for instance, are man made and are not based on true principles. “However, in a broad sense, CASTE SYSTEMS have their ROOT and ORIGIN in the GOSPEL itself, and when they operate according to the DIVINE DECREE, the resultant restrictions and SEGREGATION ARE RIGHT AND PROPER AND HAVE THE APPROVAL OF THE LORD. To illustrate: Cain, Ham, and the whole negro race HAVE BEEN CURSED WITH A BLACK SKIN, the mark of Cain, so they can be identified as a CASTE APART, a people with whom the other descendants of Adam should not intermarry.”
(Mormon Doctrine, 1958, pp. 107-108)
Posted by stevepearsonnl at 10:27 PM on January 23
Sorry , I do not see the connection between an event that presaged the Thirty Years War in Europe and 9-11-1857 . By the time Mountain Meadows occurred we were supposed to be beyond the factionalized ,State sanctioned form of Christianity that led to Europeans being at each others’ throats over religion . The point is that this is one sobering example of the Latter Day Saints not being in a particular saintish mood in their young history and lays bare the doctrine that if you are not a member of their church then you are a lowly Gentile , good for little more than exterminating(at least in the 19th century) .When in fact , unless you happen to be Jewish , we are all Gentiles . And for Mitt Romney , whom I had planned on voting for , to start in on the Confederate Flag when he has a skeleton in his closet of this magnitude,really highlights his lack of knowledge about the history of his religion and his nation .Especially since this wagon train originated in the South and the Fancher’s had southern roots. No , these two separate events, Mountain Meadows and St Bartholomew’s Massacre are not the same thing .
Posted by Palmetto Reb at 2:02 AM on January 24
Sorry , I do not see the connection between an event that presaged the Thirty Years War in Europe and 9-11-1857 . By the time Mountain Meadows occurred we were supposed to be beyond the factionalized ,State sanctioned form of Christianity that led to Europeans being at each others’ throats over religion.
Have you ever heard of the Haun’s Mill Massacre, or the extermination order by Governor Lilburn Boggs?
Look I’m not defending Mormons, now or then. But demonizing them ain’t much use, and I’m all to aware of the kinds of people who keep bringing up Mountain Meadows. It’s ancient history, and only a few members were involved. Involvement by upper church leaders has never been proven.
Besides that, having ancestors from the South I can tell you that 200 years of enslaving an entire people was far worse than a single massacre. If you fail to grasp the difference then you’re beyond help.
When in fact , unless you happen to be Jewish , we are all Gentiles.
Umm, no, I am not a Gentile, or a Mormon, or a Jew. I refuse to have that label placed upon me. I do not have a label for “anyone who does not belong to my special group” and I will not have that label placed upon me by someone else. You can choose to, if you want.
And for Mitt Romney , whom I had planned on voting for , to start in on the Confederate Flag when he has a skeleton in his closet of this magnitude,really highlights his lack of knowledge about the history of his religion and his nation .Especially since this wagon train originated in the South and the Fancher’s had southern roots.
Get over the southern roots nonsense, please. I have southern roots, too. We all know the little platitudes candidates are required to mouth in order to get elected.
So you’d prefer Hillary or McCain or Obama to Romney? You’d prefer 3 candidates who’d all without a doubt hand our country over to invaders? Wow, what stupidity.
No , these two separate events, Mountain Meadows and St Bartholomew’s Massacre are not the same thing.
You’re right - numerically, St Bartholomew’s was so much bigger, and the Catholic aggressors were in no danger or being overrun by the Protestants. The Mormons, on the other hand, were in fear of a federal invasion.
Beyond that I’ll second everything the anonymous 6:43 poster said about the church.
Posted by Alan at 3:11 AM on January 24
I am not demonizing the Mormons , now or then .It did happen and it is not ancient history and it was committed by men claiming to be saints . I was prepared to vote for Romney but how big of a fool does a man have to be to vote for those who are attacking him .The Confederate flag never came up until Kwiesi Mfume came up . But there was another flag that did , just ask Tommie Smith,John Carlos, Vincent Mathews and Wayne Collete , not to mention the Wethermen, SLA ,SNVCC and the whole hippie/peacenik movement .
You needn’t worry about me voting for the South-hating ,idiot dems , that will never happen . As for McCain I would rather not but we’ve been voting for the lesser of two evils for decades now . Haun’s Mill was indeed a travesty but the Fancher party did not perpetrate it .Nor was it of the same magnitude , after a five day seige the wagon train gave up it’s arms on the promise of protection , then they were massacred . They were simply passing through , had they not been stonewalled over provisions by all of the Mormon settlements they’d have been gone in a matter of days .And I doubt seriously if a place as big as Utah was in any danger of being over run in a nation of some 27 million .Also it has never been proven Brigham was not involved . The whole nation , no the whole western world bears the guilt of slavery, not just the South but that’s a whole nother debate I would truly love to get into but not here , not now . As for your own willingness to denigrate or trivialize your own Southerness I am reminded of an account by Southern historian Mary Lewis Rutherford when told by a young son of a Confederate veteran , “had my father lived I am sure he would’ve regretted having supported the Confederacy.” To which she replied , ” had your father lived I am sure he would have been ashamed of a son so willing to impugn the principles for which he fought and was willing to die for.”
Posted by Palmetto Reb at 11:09 AM on January 24
“Read the article again. It specifically quotes a woman missionary as one of the leaders of the program. Furthermore, nowhere does it mention illegal immigrants.”
——————-
I am aware of the article, but I said “apparently”. I spoke only about what I have personallyseen. And I have not seen young women (or any women) among these young missionaries who are, in fact, right up the street from me. I am no expert on Mormons but I am an expert on what my own eyes see, and my vision is good. Could it be that perhaps they do not send females into “urban jungles” such as New York? And nowhere did I mention anything about “illegal immigrants”.
Another thing: I do not claim to know very much about Mormonism. So, can someone more knowledgeable than I tell me if it is considered a Christian sect or something entirely separate? I have visited Utah, and even the Mormon Tabernacle there, so I do know a little bit; but I still have never gotten a definitive answer to that question, although I’ve heard various opinions both ways.
Posted by at 12:07 PM on January 24
Palmtto Reb,
We all reject things our fathers believed in dearly. If we didn’t we’d all still be living in caves, wearing deer skins and sacrificing virgins to the great sky god.
As I said, I have ancestors from the South, some of whom owned slaves, some of whom fought for the Confederacy, many of whome were from your state of South Carolina.
I’m not particularly fond of the Mormon Church, being an ex-Mormon myself. But every Mormon was not responsible for Mountain Meadows, and I seem to recall John McCain saying a thing or two against the Confederate flag, also, back in 2000.
If you honestly believe than John McAmnesty is the “lesser of two evils” in the Republican Party then feel free to vote for him. I have no such illusions.
Sincerely,
Alan
Posted by Alan at 1:02 PM on January 24
Alan and Palmetto Bob have a little tiff going here. An interesting one too. Actually, I find that they both have very persuasive arguments and I can sympathize with BOTH of them. This is not an impossibility when you’re dealing with complex, multi-faceted issues which cannot be neatly wrapped and stuffed into files marked “good” or “bad”, “right” or “wrong” - precisely issues such as these.
Posted by ghw at 6:44 PM on January 24
Latter Day Saints are very good White people these days, always have been. They have taken extreme amounts of abuse for being “different” for not being like the real “Christians” in America so the church has been taken great efforts to go away from their controversial past - plural wives, exclusively White.
From my perspective, I wish the Latter Day Saints, Mormons had not given in to be more like the idiot Judeo Christians in our country. Why would anyone want to be more like Jimmy Carter? And here at Amren, we don’t consider it a big “sin” to be White Racialists. So if you run into any of those clean cut, good looking White missionaries and they start apologizing for the Mormom past and start to tell you that “We’re not racist anymore” - please stop them and be honest and say that you think Latter Day Saints then and now are very good folks but they should be careful of bringing in the corruptions/changes in the corrupt world we live in and then compliment the lads on how beautiful their families look.
One really, really great part of the LDS Church is that they have so many beautiful White traditional wives, mothers. The LDS Church has dogged the bullet of feminism- the worst creation of Satan.
Posted by JR at 7:20 PM on January 24
Alan , you are shooting from the hip here , I never accused every Mormon of Mountain Meadows . Your statement about caves, deer skins,sky gods etc is really anachronistic in this discussion . I happen to honor my ancestors clear back to my Viking ones , but I have no problem admitting what happened at Lindasfarne was absolutely wrong .You obviously have a very tilted , liberal view of the slave issue and the WBTS .I had already guessed you were Mormon despite the fact that in your first post you said you weren’t , based on your reaction and your sir name . But I had no intention of bringing it up because it doesn’t matter anyway . If Romney wants Confederates like me to re-consider him as a serious candidate he will have to rectify his decision to climb aboard the politically correct hate train against everything Southern, of which I’m certain he will not .And if he is willing to sell out to pcness on that issue , there is no guarantee he won’t crawfish on the immigration issue once the pressure starts . Any neo-con republican or libertarian or even third party is the lesser of two evils compared to the lib-dems , anyone but the lib-dems . But I plan on voting for Ron Paul , as hopeless as it seems . I am not from SC , I chose that moniker because in high school “Rascal’s Heaven,”was one of my favorite books . In it the Southern frontiersmen wore hats of woven palmetto as opposed to coonskin caps. I was also a big fan of Cooper’s Leather Stocking Tales . I do live in the south near palmetto swamps . It’s noble of you to defend your people or former people every whit , bear in mind I am also obligated to defend mine . Goodluck to you Alan . Palmetto Reb
Posted by Palmetto Reb at 9:15 PM on January 24
I spoke only about what I have personallyseen. And I have not seen young women (or any women) among these young missionaries who are, in fact, right up the street from me. I am no expert on Mormons but I am an expert on what my own eyes see, and my vision is good. Could it be that perhaps they do not send females into “urban jungles” such as New York?
Mormon young women go on missions too, though not at the same rate as the young men do. With men it’s expected, with women it’s optional. (The hope being that they’ll be married before they’re 21). The women go later (age 21 instead of 19), and for less time (18 months instead of 24 months).
If you’ve lived in the same place for a while then what you are probably seeing are missionaries living in the same apartment, rotating in and out as individuals every couple of months. The Church maintains a long-term lease on the place, and missionaries are regularly reassigned new companions. The particular apartment will be designated as a male or female, so you will probably never see the missionaries change from men to women (which is true in or out of urban jungles).
Are female missionaries put in safer locations? I wouldn’t doubt it for a second.
Posted by Alan at 11:31 PM on January 24
Additional examples of extremist Mormon leniency with regard to the illegal immigration issues. It makes one wonder if the LDS Church leadership, and many of its members (read the posters in the linked article), are really that patriotic, or do they just look upon the United States as merely an expedient home for their religion?
I have no idea why a truly patriotic person would want his nation to be invaded by people from abroad. However, some Mormons believe it is a divinely inspired movement of people.
http://www.sltrib.com/ci_8062989
Posted by Skipper at 12:41 AM on January 25
You obviously have a very tilted , liberal view of the slave issue and the WBTS.
I don’t have a liberal (in the modern sense) view of the slave issue. I simply believe involuntary servitude to be morally wrong, whether it’s forced on a black man, a white man, or anyone else. I certainly don’t believe in reparations. And, from a purely rational perspective, look at all we’ve suffered because of it. As the bumper sticker goes: “If I’d known it’d turn out like this, I’d have picked my own damn cotton!”
I had already guessed you were Mormon despite the fact that in your first post you said you weren’t , based on your reaction and your sir name
I don’t know what’s particularly Mormon about the name Alan, but I did say, in my first post on this thread (2:28 PM, jan 23) that I was raised Mormon. I am now an ex-Mormon (by choice, not via excommunication), and have been for several years. I’ve already made several comments critical of the Mormon Church here.
I do not defend the Mormon Church or even like it much, but I think it’s important to win converts to our side, and you don’t do that by picking fights on irrelevant topics like Mountain Meadows. It just makes people defensive.
Posted by Alan at 12:34 AM on January 26
Alan I thought we had finally put an end to this useless haggling . You are truly intractable , no one put you on the defensive, it’s your nature .——Umm, no, I am not a Gentile, or a Mormon, or a Jew. I refuse to have that label placed upon me—— your post right ? Surely you can understand why at first I assumed you were not Mormon .——— I don’t know what’s particularly Mormon about the name Alan….. a gamble or a guess for sure but coupled with your ardor, it worked this time.Most of my relatives from 18th century SC were named Allen .But I’m certain there were also some Alans back there , it was just a guess.No offense was intended.————I do not defend the Mormon Church or even like it much, but I think it’s important to win converts to our side———- Remarkably rare logic———— and you don’t do that by picking fights on irrelevant topics like Mountain Meadows. It just makes people defensive.——— Alan I didn’t pick a fight with you , you have a chip on your shoulder . The slaughter of more than a hundred innocent pilgrims from ages 7 to 52 , who only wanted to pass through Utah on the way to California and Oregon is never irrelevent and the murder of some 18 Mormons at Haun’s Mill some twenty years earlier does not justify it either. On the slave issue I think we all agree it was wrong but we have the advantage viewing it through 21st century eyes . But mores have changed , most back then did not see it as being wrong ,including congress .And today’s blacks have been blessed by the hardship placed on their forebears, even black columnist Walter Williams conceded to that . But you are certainly right about one thing , we have unwittingly brought the seeds of destruction of our own civilization into our midst .By the way , my great,great……. grandfather was a 16 year old , seven year indentured servant , it was a different world back then .Truce Alan , if you don’t post neither will I .———-Reb
Posted by Palmetto Reb at 11:55 AM on January 26
Religion in America is driving the push for more non- citizens to fill their churches and coffers (and it makes me sick). This is why seperation of church/state is necessary.
Posted by Lars at 10:59 PM on January 27
I agree that religion (at least some religions) needs to be reigned in. But religion, for historical reasons, occupies a unique position in America. It is a hot potato; and I doubt that for a long time into the future, politicians are going to be willing to touch it.
We’re going to need, therefore, to learn to work with it or around it. Confronting it is not going to work.
Posted by browser at 2:45 PM on February 1
